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Why birds do not fall while sleeping

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Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#61

When I was younger, I was fascinated by evolution, especially the intricacies of how things just work. This fascination also explains why many people believe in the intelligent design theory. However, witnessing the rapid evolution of AI with just a few hundred GPUs, enough data, and power, I no longer wonder what a billion years of feedback loops and randomness can achieve.

Notice that AI is not by evolution but the result of many scientists or works, devices etc.

If suppose evolution were to occur , then many wrong and absurd things would emerge or they would not have come into existence. But there is no disorder or mistake in the past or present and everything seems to be created perfectly.

"We see that in its existence, its attributes, and its lifetime, while hesitant among innumerable possibilities, that is, among truly numerous ways and aspects, each thing follows a well-ordered way in regard to its being in innumerable respects. Its attributes also are given it in a particular way. All the attributes and states which it changes throughout its life are specified in the same fashion. This means it is impelled on a wise way amid innumerable ways through the will of one who specifies, the choice of one who chooses, and the creation of a wise Creator. He clothes it with well-ordered attributes and states. Then it is taken out of isolation and made part of a compound body, and the possibilities increase, for they may be found in that body in thousands of ways. Whereas among those fruitless possibilities, it is given a particular, fruitful state, whereby important results and benefits are obtained from that body, and it is made to carry out important functions. Then the body is made a component of another body. Again the possibilities increase, for it could exist in thousands of ways. Thus, it is given one state among those thousands of ways. And through that state it is made to perform important functions; and so on. It progressively demonstrates more certainly the necessary existence of an All-Wise Planner. It makes known that it is being impelled by the command of an All-Knowing Commander. Body within body, each has a function, a well-ordered duty, in all the compounds that one within the other themselves become components of larger compounds, and has relationships particular to each, in the same way that a soldier has a function and well-ordered duty in his squad, his company, his battalion, his regiment, his division, and his army, and a relationship particular to each of these sections, one within the other. A cell from the pupil of your eye has a duty in your eye and a relationship with it, and has wise functions and duties in your head as a whole and a relationship with it. If it confuses these the tiniest jot, the health and organization of the body will be spoilt. It has particular functions with regard to each of the veins, the sensory and motor nerves, and even the body as a whole, and wise relations with them. That specified state has been given it within thousands of possibilities through the wisdom of an All-Wise Maker.

In just the same way, each of the creatures in the universe testifies to the Necessarily Existent One through the particular being, the wise form, the beneficial attributes given it among numerous possibilities. So too when they enter compounds, those creatures proclaim their Maker with a different tongue in each compound. Step by step till the greatest compound, through their relations, functions, and duties, they testify to the necessary existence, choice, and will of their All-Wise Maker. Because the one who situates a thing in all the compounds while preserving its wise relations, must be the Creator of all the compounds. That is to say, it is as though one single thing testifies to Him with thousands of tongues. Thus, from the point of view of contingency, the testimony to the existence of the Necessarily Existent One is as numerous, not as the number of beings in the universe, but as the attributes of beings and the compounds they form..."

So turn your vision again: do you see any flaw? Then turn your vision a second time; your vision will come back to you in a state dazzled and truly defeated(Quran)

state and point out, however much the human gaze tries to find faults, it can find none anywhere, and returns worn out to its dwelling, the eye, and says to the fault-finding mind who sent it: “I am worn out for nothing; there are no faults.” This shows that the order and regularity are most perfect

Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A single training session will iterate more than the number of generations of all birds. But that's not the right analogy. Evolution happens at the individual level, and even to some extent at the individual gamete level. So it's actually every single fecundated bird egg that ever existed, and even every single spermatozoon and egg cell every time two birds mated. Not to mention every division of every bacterial ce…

> since the DNA and gene expression of an individual actually changes during its lifetime, and those changes can be passed down to offspring through various mechanisms. That statements need a whole lot of backing. It contradicts the Central dogma of molecular biology [0]. The idea that an organism can pass on to its offspring physical characteristics that the parent organism acquired through use or disuse during its…

The article you link includes a section on types of information transfer that this human-originated rule does not apply to...

Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#63

When I was younger, I was fascinated by evolution, especially the intricacies of how things just work. This fascination also explains why many people believe in the intelligent design theory. However, witnessing the rapid evolution of AI with just a few hundred GPUs, enough data, and power, I no longer wonder what a billion years of feedback loops and randomness can achieve.

Notice that AI is not by evolution but the result of many scientists or works, devices etc. If suppose evolution were to occur , then many wrong and absurd things would emerge or they would not have come into existence. But there is no disorder or mistake in the past or present and everything seems to be created perfectly. "We see that in its existence, its attributes, and its lifetime, while hesitant among innumerab…

Disagree.

Counterpoint: allergies, birth deformities, cancer

Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#65
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A single training session will iterate more than the number of generations of all birds. But that's not the right analogy. Evolution happens at the individual level, and even to some extent at the individual gamete level. So it's actually every single fecundated bird egg that ever existed, and even every single spermatozoon and egg cell every time two birds mated. Not to mention every division of every bacterial ce…

> since the DNA and gene expression of an individual actually changes during its lifetime, and those changes can be passed down to offspring through various mechanisms. That statements need a whole lot of backing. It contradicts the Central dogma of molecular biology [0]. The idea that an organism can pass on to its offspring physical characteristics that the parent organism acquired through use or disuse during its…

We absolutely pass on traits to our children based on things that happen to us. See the study of epigenetics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#66
post #41
post #20

When I read "tensegrity" I thought of these strange tables/scupltures you can buy: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=tensegrity

If you look at the article, you'll see the picture of such sculpture (a rather impressive one, by the way).

I didn't see that, are you talking about the bird's leg?

Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#67

When I was younger, I was fascinated by evolution, especially the intricacies of how things just work. This fascination also explains why many people believe in the intelligent design theory. However, witnessing the rapid evolution of AI with just a few hundred GPUs, enough data, and power, I no longer wonder what a billion years of feedback loops and randomness can achieve.

The key insight for both evolution and contemporary AI is that hill-climbing (either completely random a la evolution, or guided locally like in back-propagation) can work really well, if you have enough dimensions to play with.

Hill climbing obviously gets stuck easily in 2 or 3 dimensions. So our intuition ain't reliable.

Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#68

When I was younger, I was fascinated by evolution, especially the intricacies of how things just work. This fascination also explains why many people believe in the intelligent design theory. However, witnessing the rapid evolution of AI with just a few hundred GPUs, enough data, and power, I no longer wonder what a billion years of feedback loops and randomness can achieve.

Strictly speaking the two domains have very little in common besides "evolving" in a general sense (as opposed to something being static and unchanging). But if we generalize a bit our target system we can make the analogy more fruitful.

LLM Algorithms don't "evolve" when trained, they just fit data in a pre-existing and hardwired "DNA". More GPU, data, energy consumption etc. simply means different weights (parameters) for the same fixed algorithm. Training involves no feedback loop on the algorithm design itself. The biological analogy is like what happens when you starve or overfeed somebody: They become skinny or obese (but they will not pass on that attribute to their offspring).

The algorithm's DNA is explicitly designed and put in place by human intelligence. When thinking of the observed "evolution" of algorithms we need to include the sum total of the people involved in algorithmic design and deployment, their cognitive toolkit, incentives etc. Now that part is definitely "evolving" (various mathematical, technical or economic breakthroughs), not biologically of course, but culturally.

So-called AI Winters (and other AI Seasons) are indeed evidence of this collective cultural movement. You could say that the invention / adoption of the multilayered neural net pattern has led to a sort of Cambrian explosion similar to going from single cell to multicellular organisms.

Re: Why birds do not fall while sleeping

#69
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kangaroos engage in quadrupedal (actually pentapedal—using their tail as well) locomotion at slow speeds.

So do humans, babies and the elderly especially. What has 4 legs in the morning, 2 in the afternoon, and 3 in the evening? The key here is how relaxed is the interpretation of "permanent".

> What has 4 legs in the morning, 2 in the afternoon, and 3 in the evening?

A table. My table. To solve this stupid riddle, I remove 2 of its legs before afternoon and screw one of them back on before the evening.

Sphinx, I dare you to refute me.

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