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Living outside America

ryancarson.com

71–80 of 216 posts

Re: Living outside America

#71
post #37
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote from the article " I don’t view the USA as the center of the world. " seems rather fitting with the part where you mention America as culturally superior to other cultures.

The US basically is the center of the world (any alien who landed on Earth would recognize that, since 1945); it's just not the whole world, which is the default US view.

No, its not. From history, to language, to culture, one would claim Europe the center.

But if you look at population, production volume, China would look like the center, with the rest of the world as fringe exotic life on its borders.

Re: Living outside America

#72
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many Americans can spot the difference between Hong Kong and Seoul, or know what "BKA" stands for? That only means American culture is more exported than others in many forms like movies, TV shows, etc. People like to watch American shows, American that, American this, etc. If Honk Kong and Seoul were able to export their culture as effectively you'll know about them too. A lot of people know about Paris and Ca…

In short, Hollywood. And that English is the lingua franca of the modern world

Very true. Hollywood is overwhelmingly dominant in movies in the English speaking world. Walking into a theatre here in Melbourne and it's like I'm back in the US.

(Although I will say that Red Dog was a nicely done and uniquely Australian movie.)

Re: Living outside America

#73
post #22

I've been able to do the first 3 without leaving (perhaps because I wasn't born here), and number 4 doesn't seem so certain. What I noticed about living outside America when I did it later as an adult was that it made it clearer what was distinctive about the US. Many of the distinctive things I noticed could be summed up by describing America as a young culture. Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but t…

That's an interesting point, but I guess that this is mostly due to the immigration friendly policies the US has. IIRC, I read somewhere in the Economist that the US is actually the only OECD country that is not going to suffer from a demographic shift. But if those policies would change, or research universities need to cut down their expenses due to budget problems, I'm not sure how long this would last. (IIRC, when Ireland's economy came to a halt, almost all foreign blue collar workers went back to their home countries in no time.)

Re: Living outside America

#75
post #3

Living and traveling outside the US (Europe, Middle East, Asia) for ~15 years convinced me of the inherent superiority of the US (culturally, economically, etc.). Our government is broken, but generally the US lets problems get really inefficiently bad, then overcorrects, so I hope that will happen in the next 20 years. The threats to the US are not other countries getting better than us, but the decline of the natio…

> There are plenty of specific areas where other countries are better than the US, but no single country which is enough better on enough things to be a serious competitor.

Strongly disagree on this one here, after 4 years in Australia. Better public transport, better health care, better wages, less political bullshit, better immigration policy.

Re: Living outside America

#76
post #9

This is a great article, and as a European I can relate to all of his points. Here are some comments from the other side of the pond; they're of course my personal opinion but I think they're somewhat representative of the European view. I don’t view the USA as the center of the world - i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday. If you take a historical perspective this is how many empires fall…

I've been an out American for 7 years now, first two in Switzerland, the last 5 in China. I still think America has a lot going for it. Switzerland is efficient and fair, but something is missing because of restrained competition and protectionism. China is the exact opposite, and its hard to believe the system works at all. For whatever troubles America has, our system still works and is rather effective; no one is…

[deleted]

Re: Living outside America

#77
post #32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Living and traveling outside the US (Europe, Middle East, Asia) for ~15 years convinced me of the inherent superiority of the US (culturally, economically, etc.). To be fair, most of the places you lived in that 15 years sucked really hard, even just objectively. The good non-US places are way better than the states in almost every measurable aspect.

Living in UK, NL (well, for 2mo), Anguilla, Dubai, Thailand, 3mo in Japan, and visiting a bunch of other "good" countries is my basis for this. Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Horn of Africa, etc. are known to be write-offs. (and actually Afghanistan minus 100% of the people there would be a pretty awesome place, if inaccessible.) Hong Kong is the one place I've spent >2mo where I'd like to spend 5+ years, but it's too sm…

As a dutch citizen the idea that you would rank the states above and beyond our nation is offensive and idiotic.

What on earth would make you qualify the situation like that?

Re: Living outside America

#78
post #9

This is a great article, and as a European I can relate to all of his points. Here are some comments from the other side of the pond; they're of course my personal opinion but I think they're somewhat representative of the European view. I don’t view the USA as the center of the world - i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday. If you take a historical perspective this is how many empires fall…

> i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday

And yet most of us are right now using computers designed in America, with an operating system written in America, posting on an American website. How is the USA not the centre of the world? From jeans to Katy Perry, from Google to McDonald's -- Americans totally dominated both the culture and the business. If I turn on the tv right now, I will have to skip through five channels before I hit a non-American production.

> the fact that many Americans are so religious is just utterly strange, and somewhat frightening

Why? Religious people commit less crime, get and stay married more, use less illegal drugs, donate and volunteer more... It would make more sense to fear people becoming less religious.

I'm sure the author didn't mean that, that his observations are an honest account of his journey but I can't help to notice that articles like this strike this weird SWPL chord "I'm from America but I'm not like the rest of those simpletons" (that's a mild version) and comments to them tend to be real oikophobia festivals.

No, I'm not an American and don't live in the States (otherwise the whole tv exercise would be pointless).

Re: Living outside America

#79
To really understand America, you must not only live in it, but also live outside it. Note: I am from the USA, and "we" or "our" refers to us Americans.

I spent 3 years abroad, recently returning to the USA this summer, and I will try to outline some of what I learned, although it is somewhat difficult as this knowledge has become ingrained in me and obvious as to seem to require no explanation.

- English as lingua franca

The average person doesn't realize how dominant English is as the world's language, how that dominance is reflected by our leading industries, and how the prevalence of English helps exports our culture, values, and by extension, our products. For example, the majority of the latest scientific research is written in English, regardless of the scientist's nationality. Every programmer across the world learns a rudimentary English just by virtue of being a programmer, as most programming languages are in English and the majority of programming technical guides are in English. When travelers of different nationalities meet in a 3rd country, they speak English. When businessmen of different countries do business together, they speak English. As native speakers we have a built-in advantage. But our potential weakness is failing to understand different nationalities. Especially as the other countries grow in power. I've heard, from the English-speaking Chinese in China: "We understand your culture and speak your language. You, on the other hand, don't understand ours at all. We have the advantage."

- Dominance of American cultural media, internet, and education Hollywood movies, American music artists and bands, tech companies, and higher education all hold significant leads over whatever competitors foreign countries can muster. Besides China, the rest of the world doesn't use their version of Facebook, and none of them have the engineers to keep up. The majority of the top 100 Universities in the world are in the USA. And most of the world watches American music and movies. Its ironic: a commonly heard stereotype is that Americans have little to no culture, when American popular culture is by far the most dominant in the world and unmatched in its breadth, choice, depth, and quality.

- US Consumerism This is a little more complex, but you still can see this if you look hard enough: the world economic system is built around US consumers. Take a look at prices for electronics in Asia, for example. In the very places where the electronics are made, the retail prices are all significantly higher than those in the US. Samsung and LG TVs cost more in Korea than they do in America. Computers cost more in China than they do in the USA. I frequently found myself waiting until I returned to US soil before I made any big ticket electronic or computer purchases, because the savings were ridiculous.

Once you look into the price disparity, you realize that other countries, mainly the exporting ones in Asia, manipulate their currencies, and build their economies on the back of US consumers. It's a potentially dangerous cycle because our consumerism habit is encouraged and built-in to the system via currencies and our addiction to credit, making it a hard habit to break.

- the effectiveness of USA institutions: legal system, courts, law enforcement, Congress, media, higher education Good governance and higher civilization aren't created overnight, and are not easy to develop. If you look at any 3rd world country, you notice immediately that the country often borders on anarchy due to lack of effective political / governing structure. Either the President is a brutal dictator, or the police are corrupt, or military generals are the de facto leaders, or the legal system is weak and the laws unenforced, and the list goes on and on. Effective government does not arise from air. It is built on decades or centuries of experience and stability. To maintain its effectiveness is a constant struggle against the evils inherent in man: laziness, corruption, abuse of power, etc. and a fight that seems to be slipping away from us in recent years.

The strong laws, governance, loyal military, and highly educated and productive citizens of a country are what make countries like America, those in Western Europe, and increasingly, some in East Asia good places to live.

Interestingly, even though reddit seems to hate cops, in my experience cops in the USA are paragons of professionalism compared to those in developing countries. It's hard to imagine, but cops there just don't take the profession very seriously. The standards of law enforcement in developed countries are another level entirely. And you can apply this "higher level" concept to the other areas I outlined above: judges, courts, the military, businesses, politicians.

If we let our vigilance slack, then the strong civilizing forces, whose bond make a civilization great, will begin to weaken, and the country's excellence will begin to regress.

Sorry, I took a tangent there.

- differences in political systems and their effectiveness This is hard for me to explain because I consider it as self-evident as 2+2=4, but I'll do my best. It's clear to me, and many other people who have studied political systems across the world, that democracy isn't a one-model-fits-all-countries panacea. Democracies (if you could call them that) often fail where there is no historical precedent or experience for it, and the populace is unfamiliar with or uninterested in participating in the democratic process. Uneducated, unengaged citizens are a recipe for democracy failure. Other factors that ruin a democracy's effectiveness: corrupt leaders and lax enforcement. The leaders just rig the elections and the enforcement just lets it all slide.

Another issue is public policy. Looking at what other countries have tried and how it works in their countries is like drawing up a theoretical policy experiment and then seeing the results before your eyes. The policy's results won't ever match 1-1 with your native country if said policy was implemented due to differences in culture and environment, but just seeing how others have done things opens your mind to the possibilities and forces you to understand a different perspective. The same applies to cultural values or mores. Often I have found myself in Asia in wonder at some common practice or another that is superior, in almost every way, to what we have in America. (And I've found the opposite as well).

- crumbling US infrastructure vs. the World's "Crumbling" is a bit of hyperbole, but still, the first thing you notice when traveling is how new and modern the rest of the world's airports are compared to those in the USA. New York, America's supposed mecca of culture and a truly international city, has airports whose decrepitness puts lesser cities to shame. Don't get me started on the subways.

I would say that the USA has one of the best governing infrastructures, but only average (and slipping fast) physical infrastructure. Oh, and US Broadband speeds rank is #12. I'm particularly emotional about that one.

Overall, the US is still one of the best countries to live in the world for a number of its strengths that are unmatched, and will not be surpassed for the next several decades, if ever. But signs are showing that the civilizing fabric which holds our country together is weakening: deadlocked political process, income and wealth disparity at historical levels, the Great Recession, and what some might lament as a decline in values and morals into a disgusting morass of consumerism, selfish individualism, and celebrity worship.

But it could be all part of the cycle, and the future is still bright. The highly educated citizenry, and especially the youth(courtesy of all those student loans!), are some of our greatest strengths.

Meanwhile, at the risk of sounding un-PC, the uneducated underclass is our biggest weakness, although I'm unsure whether historically it is larger in size relative to the population.

I'm not bearish on America... yet. There are too many good things going for it. The energy, dynamism, ambition, and intelligence are all in absurdly high concentrations in numerous US cities. The political system just needs a little tweaking.

Re: Living outside America

#80
I moved to the UK, most people I met didn’t believe in God or Christianity. The UK is largely a non-Christian country.

10$ note - "in god we trust". £10 note - Charles Darwin picture on it.

I guess it explains a lot.

I read a few comments about atheists being "ashamed" in states - I don't really see that happening in europe. Even in the far eastern parts of it being overly (and I probably have a bit of a different definition on this word) religious is being nowadays quite often considered weird. Especially among young people in bigger cities.

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