Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment • Hacker News Board

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#111

Post by RickS » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 3:05 AM UTC

consumer451 wrote: post #86

throwawaygluten wrote: post #11

Anecdotal, but this (likely) happened to me. For a year, my body could not digest gluten. My doctors tested me for celiac antibodies and all tests came back negative. A gastroenterologist asked if I had taken anti-biotics at any point. I had: 12 months prior I had gone swimming near a landfill, gotten sick, and my primary care doctor had prescribed antibiotics (suspecting giardia). This final GI doctor asked if I had…

This is entirely anecdotal, and n=1, but I have seen a sailing YouTuber who claimed that she was unable to tolerate gluten in the USA, but once in Europe there was no problem. She assumed that it was related to agri-chem in the USA. Does anyone know which grain related agricultural products are used in the USA and not in the EU?

My partner has celiac, and has mentioned something like this, but rather than chemicals, it purportedly had to do with heirloom seed strains. europe apparently has more variation among the same crop, and they're also closer to the things our body evolutionary expects since that entire region is much older w/r/t western diet. the USA has basically been hyperoptimizing a monoculture in relative isolation to such a degree that it's kindof its own thing, and some people's bodies don't tolerate it well. now, is this actually supported by a mountain of evidence? I don't know. But at a glance, it at least sounds plausible.

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#112

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 3:47 AM UTC

vasco wrote: post #14

jim-jim-jim wrote: post #8

I've been looking for relief from abdominal pain, bloating, poorly formed movements, and breathing problems for well over a year now. It started right after a round of antibiotics, which strikes me as a very clear cause-and-effect situation involving some sort of microbial imbalance. I don't think restrictive diets are a great idea, because I want to stay healthy otherwise and ultimately restore that balance, but cur…

You need to prove your knowledge to doctors contextually, and even then it's much easier if they are not actively giving you a consultation. Doctors don't respond well to randomly dropping theories on them. If you respond to something by dropping an inappropriate paper for the illness or ask about rare issues when common ones would fit they'll stop listening. Most of the people a doctor gets either almost can't read…

> Doctors don't respond well to randomly dropping theories on them.

Because they are liabilities. If he follows along with your theory and you get worse, he doesn't get to claim he was following accepted medical practice.

Plenty of smart guys turn into the doctor's worst enemies after things start going wrong. Wanna know what arguments they use in court against doctors who show patients this sort of respect?

> I couldn't possibly have known

> He is a doctor and I'm just a patient

> My judgement was impaired due to my sickness

If patients want to start dropping theories on doctors, they should be ready to share in the responsibility for the outcome. Courts have demonstrated that the vast majority of people are not ready to accept that responsibility.

> Most of the people a doctor gets either almost can't read or think they have all the diagnosis from "the internet".

Well said. Many of my patients are illiterate. Imagine how hard it is to obtain informed consent. Combine that with internet diagnosis and it's a shit show. I have people asking me about the benefits of some YouTube charlatan's special himalayan salts on a daily basis. And that's when they're not already using those things and dismissing medicine as a corporate conspiracy to keep them sick and perpeptually consuming drugs.

I have no problem with people who googled things, understood those things and who want my professional opinion on the matter. It only becomes a problem for me once they start trying to determine what the treatment is going to be. It's my name, signature and license on the prescription. The only options available to the patient are the ones I'm willing to write on that paper.

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#113

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 4:33 AM UTC

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #47

dcx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I'm certainly going to try that. I was more asking if anyone has experience getting tests done properly in light of their low accuracy. From what I understand, an antigen test is still a stool test, meaning they are only 50% accurate. As a commenter on this post shared, managing the health system is challenging in this area. I just did a bit of googling, and found a couple of leads here: > CDC recommends coll…

Where I live, microbiologists work the diagnosis by examining stool through a microscope. Nowadays, though, doctors are lazy and just prescribe antiparasitaries without a diagnosis. I was taught to suspect worms only in children and immunicompromised adults. And I never found the exception.

Depends on where you live. Parasites are utterly endemic in areas as close as a 30 minutes drive away from me. They are commonly found in patients of all ages, including otherwise normal functioning adults.

Depending on the epidemiology, testing a population is a waste of time and money. They have a very high chance of having the disease and a very high chance of reinfection even after treatment. So what happens is those patients come in every once in a while and they straight up ask for their periodic albendazole dose. And then they go back to their homes and they drink the exact same water and eat the exact same food.

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#114

Post by psd1 » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 4:34 AM UTC

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #92

jancsika wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I even had a negative celiac antibody test. Note you can also check your genetic config.log to see if there was a -DALLOW_CELIAC flag in your source build. Unfortunately your body's settings dialog is shit and does not show you whether or not that feature is set to on or off. But if you were built without that flag then you lack the code for the Celiac algorithm altogether and are good to go. (There may be other se…

Veering offtopic, your phrasing reminds me of the short story that made me discover Cory Doctorow: https://www.salon.com/2002/08/28/0wnz0red/ (shit, >20 years ago!)

I'd say he wrote that just after reading Snow Crash in about 1998

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#115

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 5:14 AM UTC

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #48

vasco wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but sometimes people with legitimately debilitating illneses slip through the cracks and have to aggressively advocate for themselves to get any real testing done Sometimes they do, but by definition it's likely not you. It's important to think here that everyone thinks "they are the informed one" or that they are the one that "might have the rare one". Same reason why most people have bought a lottery ticket in th…

It is too bad most people don't like all the dull gray truth in your comment. Everybody thinks they are the exception, for good and bad. On top of that, there are medical schools, not just one. A doctor might be following a [compulsory] guideline from his association / state / institution / college.

> A doctor might be following a [compulsory] guideline from his association / state / institution / college.

I have no doubt they are, compulsory or not. When things go wrong, the first thing the judge asks is whether the doctor followed established medical practice, whatever that may be.

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#116

Post by anonymous344 » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 5:20 AM UTC

lurking15 wrote: post #49

anonymous344 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I'm also on this road. Stress, and inflammation in the body. What helped me was extra hemp-protein powder, forest-berries (=prebiotic) and keeping away from milk, gluten, oat, sugar, alcohol, CITRIC-ACID (this is everywhere! and if you google it, you find that it is causing brain fog like hangover) And quite a lot of C-vitamin. keeping down the inflammation with tea made from ginger, tumeric and other herb…

Sounds like you've identified that histamine is an issue for you. Vitamin C will clear serum histamine, citric acid is bad since it's a fermented byproduct of black mold (likely triggers histamine release from impurities). In my IBS journey I had a period where I had very strong histamine intolerance, and vitamin C (in the form of QBC vitamin, quercetin + bromelain + vitamin C) really helped stabilize me. Histamine i…

thank you and God bless! I found out about this histamine when drinking wine and after got cramps. But did not find cure for it. B12 which was one aid, normally makes my stomach bad imeadiately. Will try QBC

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#117

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 5:39 AM UTC

bsmirnov wrote: post #60

If you're interested in this topic, look up Dr. Kevin Cahill and his work in tropical medicine. Sadly, situations like these are far more common than people think. My wife studied abroad in India in 2004 and returned with persistent stomach issues. After seeing multiple doctors (gastroenterologists, infectious disease specialists, etc.) and undergoing countless tests (stool samples, endoscopy, colonoscopy), no one co…

As a brazilian doctor, it's great to see people paying attention to tropical diseases. I gotta admit it's kind of surreal, intestinal worms and Giardia lamblia are an everyday thing here.

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#118

Post by littlechef » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 6:07 AM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #93

theshrike79 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually had a discussion about this with a very experienced gastroenterologist. They said that doctors love data. Don't come at them with theories or papers. Give them a food diary + symptoms, it helps a LOT more than "I think I have X".

Doctors don't love data: they love a veneer of data on top of a seductive narrative, typically at a conference in Bermuda, after a couple of wine glasses.

So take them a food diary and a bottle of wine??

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#119

Post by dcx » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 6:23 AM UTC

ChumpGPT wrote: post #105

dcx wrote: post #13

Oh wow, I have the first half of this situation. I went through a period where my digestion was so bad that it was affecting my ability to function from day to day. I didn't get anything useful from my gastro; I even had a negative celiac antibody test. Eventually I started rigorously tracking everything I ate against my symptoms, and after a few months I was able to draw a strong correlation with gluten intake. From…

Here is a thought. If you're having difficulty finding proper testing, just have a doctor prescribe the treatment for giardiasis. After finishing it, you can test whether things are now better for you.

In your experience, are doctors generally willing to do this?

Re: Medical student's apparent celiac disease responded to giardiasis treatment

#120

Post by davzie » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:58 AM UTC

polishdude20 wrote: post #101

davzie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried probiotics, tonnes of different types, none of them worked, most made it worse. I tried fasting, a few days eating nothing and drinking only water with a bit of salt. It doesn't really work. The bacteria go into hibernation mode until you start eating again. I don't drink milk anymore and I tried a low FODMAP diet. The latter helped, but I found it so hard to keep up and it was stressful. I had every diagnost…

Just as a counterpoint to your anecdote, I actually took a course of antibiotics for a week a few months ago and my stomach issues went away completely. Then they came back when I stopped :( Probiotics didn't help either. Even the refrigerated ones. Then I started drinking a half cup of unflavoured gelatin before each meal. Take half a tablespoon of the powdered gelatin, mix with half cup water, wait two minutes to d…

Rifaximin / Neomycin has big impacts on it however I do believe if you have stress still, not got good stomach acid and / or not dealing with poor gut motility, it will slowly re-surface.