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WordPress retaliation impacts community

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Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#31

Post by simonw »

serial_dev wrote: post #11
bullenweg wrote: post #3

Rumors are that another round of voluntary layoffs are coming to Automattic today. I am optimistic for the future of WordPress because it looks less and less likely to involve Matt. Matt has created the ideal conditions for a fork to succeed: WordPress (the software) is a fixture of the internet, it is never going away no matter how much Matt sabotages it but Matt's control over it is not a foregone conclusion given…

I have been thinking about the alignment offer that Automattic has offered its employees. It’s hard for me to imagine any scenario at any company where I would not take the money and go. Six months of salary is a lot of money for just simply walking away. To be completely honest, after seeing everything that has transpired, I would be worried that the offer is just a lie, a way to out the detractors. I’m wondering if…

If you're a PHP developer with expertise in WordPress Automattic is pretty much your version of FAANG - I can totally understand why people wouldn't want to trade even six months salary for never being able to work there again.

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#32

Post by bilekas »

dovin wrote: post #4

I've been trying to wrap my head around why this feels so wrong. If the project had been run like this from the beginning, in an opinionated way that prioritizes what the few creators of the project think are important, then that's one thing. But it seems like Wordpress has generally been the stable, boring, slow-moving project that isn't run like a personal fiefdom, and Mullenweg is trying to force it from the one m…

> Mullenweg is trying to force it from the one model to the other

There are proper ways to do that, changing the license in a next version for example is how I think it should have been done in the first place. I've said it before here but this has all the markings of being extremely petty and Mullenweg not happy with their own licensing model.

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#33

Post by Log_out_ »

jcranmer wrote: post #8

On the off-chance that Matt is doing the irresponsible thing here and still getting involved in social media discussions on this topic: People don't like being involved in drama, and as we saw with the Freenode debacle, when it starts up, the usual first reaction is to try to chart a path that lets them avoid the drama as much as possible. But when you demand that those people take sides, and pursue a scorched earth…

People = companies such as my own

do not like = have not prized in

drama = the idea that the free meal could walk off thr plate.

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#34

Post by jjgon1781 »

thr0w555 wrote: post #30
ValentineC wrote: post #25

One of the most recent losses to the WordPress community is bluesix, a former r/Wordpress mod, and arguably one of the most altruistic members of the community: https://www.reddit.com/r/Wordpress/comments/1g5fn36/uhhh_wha...

Worth noting that this was entirely the fault of the /r/wordpress users though, not Matt. The users threw wild accusations and conspiracy theories at the moderators and apparently threats in PM. The level of madness in the sub really reached embarrassing levels.

I mean the remaining mod is on matt payroll and there is a conflict of interest which cause the subreddit not to trust the mods

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#35

Post by [deleted] »

bilekas wrote: post #32
dovin wrote: post #4

I've been trying to wrap my head around why this feels so wrong. If the project had been run like this from the beginning, in an opinionated way that prioritizes what the few creators of the project think are important, then that's one thing. But it seems like Wordpress has generally been the stable, boring, slow-moving project that isn't run like a personal fiefdom, and Mullenweg is trying to force it from the one m…

> Mullenweg is trying to force it from the one model to the other There are proper ways to do that, changing the license in a next version for example is how I think it should have been done in the first place. I've said it before here but this has all the markings of being extremely petty and Mullenweg not happy with their own licensing model.

[deleted]

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#36

Post by CodeWriter23 »

dovin wrote: post #4

I've been trying to wrap my head around why this feels so wrong. If the project had been run like this from the beginning, in an opinionated way that prioritizes what the few creators of the project think are important, then that's one thing. But it seems like Wordpress has generally been the stable, boring, slow-moving project that isn't run like a personal fiefdom, and Mullenweg is trying to force it from the one m…

> Wordpress has generally been the stable, boring, slow-moving project

80% annual codebase churn (according to Theo) says otherwise

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#37

Post by labster »

crabmusket wrote: post #29

I hope that one positive outcome of this whole debacle will be people realising that the Wordpress Foundation board is apparently three Matt Mullenwegs in a trenchcoat: https://www.pluginvulnerabilities.com/2024/09/24/who-is-on-t... (I exaggerate, slightly.) This is clearly not what an independent foundation with the interests of the open source project in mind looks like. If this mess creates pressure to put more se…

I’m the president of an internet nonprofit (miraheze.org) and we have five active directors with an annual budget of ~$10k. We have elections for community appointed directors as well. This stuff is not hard.

By comparison, the WordPress Foundation is just embarrassing. One of the biggest OSS projects in the world operating as a vanity project for Matt instead of being a stakeholder group, or doing much of anything.

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#38

Post by thr0w555 »

jjgon1781 wrote: post #34
thr0w555 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that this was entirely the fault of the /r/wordpress users though, not Matt. The users threw wild accusations and conspiracy theories at the moderators and apparently threats in PM. The level of madness in the sub really reached embarrassing levels.

I mean the remaining mod is on matt payroll and there is a conflict of interest which cause the subreddit not to trust the mods

The mods never behaved as if they were on "matts payroll" or anything of the like. They had a pinned megathread at the top of the front page, they opened up the sub in the past few days to allow any posts even outside megathreads. They also redirected for a period all posts to r/wpdrama, giving free promotion to that sub.

Whether you agree with the megathread-only policy or not, they never behaved as if they were doing anything but trying to keep the sub clean and not totally overridden by Matt controversy posts which is normal on Reddit.

Re: WordPress retaliation impacts community

#40

Post by cortesoft »

I honestly have been starting to wonder if this open source business model (a for-profit company whose business model centers around being the owners and maintainers of open source projects) is the best way to fund the development of open source.

I think a vast majority of software should be open source, but I also don’t think these sorts of businesses are the best way to achieve that goal. There just ends up being too much conflict between the need to run a business and the needs of the open source project and community. They can end up downright hostile, as in this case.

I personally think the best funding model is companies who have a software need that is outside their core business to pay for their employees to work on the open source software, either full time or as part of their duties. It aligns the development of the software with the needs of the people using the software.

If a company wants more of their own needs to be addressed in the development, they can contribute more developer time to work on those things.

You are also free to fund the development effort yourself as an individual by contributing, if you want to drive development in a certain way you think is best.

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