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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#631

Post by WalterBright »

tzs wrote: post #504
WalterBright wrote: post #377

Disney+ had a "cancel anytime!" message on its web pages. But I could never find a cancel button on any of them. So I called my credit card company and put a block on any charges from Disney.

Isn't it in the subscription details linked to on the account tab in your profile page? That's where it was the 2 or 3 times I've cancelled. The last time was a couple of years ago, but it looks like it was still there at the start of this year [1]. [1] https://www.tomsguide.com/how-to/how-to-cancel-disney-plus

The fact that there's a need for a tomsguide article on how to cancel proves my point.

No, I never found it.

But I do thank you for the tip! But I cancelled Disney for a reason - their shows were unappealing to me.

I'm about to cancel Apple TV too. Every time I see a show on it I'm interested in, it costs another $3.99.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#632

Post by srockets »

rootusrootus wrote: post #326
cortesoft wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I remember when Amazon Prime first started, I signed up for the free trial to get free shipping on something. Of course, I forgot about it and didn’t cancel, but then I got an email from Amazon saying, “hey, you didn’t cancel your prime subscription but you also haven’t used it at all, so we are going to not charge you and cancel it for now. Here is how you easily restart your subscription if you end up needing…

Early Amazon was pro-customer in a way that I think most people have forgotten. Maybe that was always the strategy? They were losing money for years, and maybe that was investing in the company, or maybe it was allowing really large losses to keep customers happy, planning all along to eventually clamp down when people were addicted. And here we are. Their return rate is still pretty terrible, IIRC. I bet they are tr…

Back when people were suspicious of buying things online, Amazon used to set a percentage in the low double digits, of revenue they assumed would be lost to refunds.

That allowed an amazing customer service experience, and immense trust: if there was an issue with your order that couldn’t be easily fixed, then we’re very sorry, and here’s your money back.

Both that program and the incentive for it are long gone.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#633

Post by cynicalsecurity »

crazygringo wrote: post #400
Beijinger wrote: post #396

I want this "click-to-cancel" rule for any form of subscription. Everybody tries to bill you into oblivion. You must be insane if you don't use virtual credit card numbers today. I am apartment hunting right now. Most apartments don't exist and some Nigerian scammers try to make you request a "credit report" that is basically a subscription service and really difficult to cancel.

> You must be insane if you don't use virtual credit card numbers today. Virtual numbers protect against people stealing your number. They don't really do much against subscriptions. If you sign up for a service and stop paying, it gets sent to collections, and then impacts your credit score because of unpaid debt. Whether you used a virtual number or not is irrelevant. So it's not "insane" not to use virtual credit…

If you live in another country, you couldn't care less of your Orwellian "credit score" being affected. Using a virtual debit card really pays off in this case.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#634

Post by [deleted] »

photonthug wrote: post #630
theamk wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go one step further and for the lists which I don't remember subscribing to, I never click "Unsubscribe" - it's "Spam" right away.

Works great except for the gas company, electric and water company, phone company, airlines, cloud provider, os provider, and everyone else that mixes the 5% of legit business that you can’t afford to ignore or miss with the 95% of marketing content that you want to get rid of. Since it’s usually opaque how “mark as spam” and “block” actually works, and since the origin of the mailing lists can be reconfigured any ti…

[deleted]

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#635

Post by lightedman »

I want to see the FTC go whomever gave Discord my new EXP and CVC so they could continue to charge me after my other card expired, especially since they use dark patterns in the cancellation process and won't just let you remove a card from your profile without canceling the subscription first, and they don't tell you that your remaining subscription will remain in effect until it expires.

I consider that direct wire fraud. I didn't want Discord having that information and yet someone gave it to them.

And Discord should get charges for receiving stolen funds via wire - I think that does fall under wire fraud as well.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#636

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

inetknght wrote: post #391
maccard wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with the spam button is 1) they never ever go into my inbox again if they do keep sending, and 2) as someone who has had emails marked as spam (from people who actively clicked the sign up to my newsletter button) your ability to send email gets neutered pretty quickly. What is your experience?

> What is your experience? Reporting spam does not block the email from being received by my client -- it only blocks the mail from being seen in the inbox, but it still shows up in the spam box. I don't send mail that gets reported as spam in the first place. Or, if it does, then I haven't been meaningfully affected because I can still send and receive the email I want to.

And we all know that Inbox and Spam are one and the same these days - if you are expecting an email, you must check both.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#637

Post by dqv »

consteval wrote: post #503
Eumenes wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be snarky. I have never experienced a service I couldn't cancel online. I didnt realize it was a problem. And yes, the government attempts to solve imaginary problems everyday.

To put into perspective how awful this problem actually is, I signed up for planet fitness 100% online. I went to the gym and well, it sucked. So then I want to cancel. Okay I go to the front desk. Can I cancel? No. They tell me to read the website. Okay I go to the website. It says "well... this varies gym to gym". Okay I call my gym "... yeah we can't cancel, you have to send a formal letter to HQ" A letter? Really…

For future reference, if any company does still require this sort of byzantine process and you want a quick resolution, the magic words "Certified Mail" strike fear into 99% of companies and will get them to act in days upon receipt rather than months. Even a company-appointed arbiter will respect the USPS certification stamp.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#639

Post by amy-petrik-214 »

inetknght wrote: post #348
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

> I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. The sheer number of comments that think the state of "unsubscribe" is good is... saddening. I should not have to click a link to "unsubscribe" from something that I did not subscribe to. There's no recourse for me against these thieves.

>The sheer number of comments that think the state of "unsubscribe" is good is... saddening. I should not have to click a link to "unsubscribe" from something that I did not subscribe to. There's no recourse for me against these thieves.

Exactly! Total scumbags. The way I would frame the feeling for people who don't get it - Imagine coming home from a walk. Your car is gone. Someone left a note on your front door. "Hi, thanks so much for letting me borrow your car! Call me at this number when you want it back!". The manipulative car thief in this example would deny stealing - pointing out they would return the car whenever asked. So you call them and ask for it back, but a bit of your soul dies - to ask for it back is to play along with the ruse that this is what you consented to in the first place. Or at least "would definitely have consented to if available which you weren't". And the loss of control over consent leaves a persistent sense of violation, after all, someone just stole from you and then has the gall to pretend you consented, to your face (or front door).

Perhaps the car borrower-without-permission should have owed up to being a car thief. Perhaps the subscribe-without-permission thieves should own up to being just spammers. The insult of it all is not so much from the random spam, but this manipulative pretend game where we have some spam shitelist LARPing as a reputed newsletter of great public interest - the gall of the spammer to make-believe that you subscribed.

It would all be easily solved if there were civil penalties for it. I'd gladly go after anyone and everyone who pulled this shit as a public service.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#640

Post by NotACop182 »

lovethevoid wrote: post #439
IggleSniggle wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wait, are you saying you don't need to do that? You and I live in different worlds

I don't, I just press this button (not my screenshot) https://www.badsender.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bouton-...

I push that button all the time and it works lie 30% of them time. Then future emails that come in don't have the unsubscribe on top.
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