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Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

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Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#11

Post by sparacha »

edude03 wrote: post #9

Envoy is legendary in (dev)ops circles, but I don't understand what it lends to the AI space. I feel like building a separate backend service that runs behind envoy would make more sense but that's just me.

We agree Envoy is legendary - and per se doesn't lend anything to the AI space. That's essentially what we are doing here, building on top of Envoy to add capabilities specifically for AI and prompts. For instance, we use Envoy's filtering capabilities to handle and process prompts - this was get to keep all the robustness and security features for TCP/HTTP from Envoy and solve the critical but undifferentiated tasks related to prompts like safety, observability, routing, function calling, etc.

Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#12

Post by sparacha »

crb wrote: post #10

Tetrate and Bloomberg want to contribute their code to Envoy to create "Envoy AI Gateway", similarly to how there is an "Envoy Gateway" spec. Do you see this as being complementary or competitive with your work? https://tetrate.io/press/tetrate-and-bloomberg-collaborate-o...

It's early days, so while there might be some overlap, I am sure there is a lot that we can do together to build complimentary products.

Based on the press release, its kinda hard to tell exactly how different/alike we will be, but Arch will always be "designed-first" for prompts and LLM application workloads without exposing all Envoy related features. And Envoy is "designed-first" for micro-services application workloads. So there will be some overlap but our design principles will deviate over time I feel. But we are very open to collaborating with the community here...

Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#13

Post by harlanlewis »

lionkor wrote: post #4

Hi, I'm curious how preventing jailbreaks protects the user ? > Prompt guardrails to prevent jailbreak attempts and ensure safe user interactions [...]

Untrusted inputs to systems with agency or access to privileged data. Here’s a data exfiltration example in Google AI Studio:

https://x.com/wunderwuzzi23/status/1821210923157098919

Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#15

Post by sparacha »

3np wrote: post #14

That's quite an overloaded name... Good luck with SEO for "how do i run arch on linux?" :p

Yea - that’s gonna be an issue. It was a hotly debated name but we figured the SEO will adapt with GenAI and the way we know SEO today might not be problematic. Let’s see - tricky for sure

Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#16

Post by retrovrv »

debarshri wrote: post #7

Lately, I have seen few gateways around LLM. Namely, openrouter, portkey.ai, etc. My key question is, who would be the ideal customer who would need a proxy or a gateway like this? Why couldn't it be an extension or plugin of existing LBs, proxies etc.

I'm affiliated with Portkey, so can answer who would need such a proxy/gateway:

Sidenote: Arch is def interesting!

A typical user we've seen at Portkey is a mid or a large size eng org where a central "Gen AI team" has now come up. This Gen AI team builds services that the rest of the company uses to build whatever AI features or products they want.

To build such a service, they need traditional API Gateway features like rate limiting, access rules, and also AI-specific features like universal API to multiple LLM providers, universal routing, central guardrails, AI-native observability + central dashboard for other stakeholders, and more.

It can absolutely be a plugin on top of existing Gateways.. like we've explored putting Portkey on Kong, but the need for a dedicated AI Gateway still remains, that can do all of these things I described in an easier way.

Probably, solutions like Langchain/Llamaindex etc. also fit in somewhere here, but a dedicated service for "ops" related issues for LLM APIs is something that we're seeing orgs adopt as a good practice.

Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#17

Post by dang »

Offtopic technical note: I've created a new post for this because the previous one (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41801315) was old enough to fall out of the ranked stories on HN.

We picked it for the second-chance pool (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308) when it was already several days old, and by the time the thread got going, it basically got evicted from cache. This is a manual workaround to correct that. Sorry all!

I've moved the comments from the other thread hither, which is why most of them are hours older than the current submission is.

Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#19

Post by sparacha »

hahdflakdfwdasd wrote: post #18

Since its an envoy filter it was trivial to setup in Istio Ingress. Good stuff.

Great to hear that - walk us a bit more how you are planning on using the filter? The filter today does communicate with a model_server service for the intelligence piece. Were you thinking of using the filter for outbound LLM traffic management?

Re: Show HN: Arch – an intelligent prompt gateway built on Envoy

#20

Post by adilhafeez »

hahdflakdfwdasd wrote: post #18

Since its an envoy filter it was trivial to setup in Istio Ingress. Good stuff.

You are right, since arch is an ingress wasm filter it can be setup inside Istio just like any other envoy filter. You would need to pass arch_config someone which should be easy. We will have samples/demos for Istio and K8s deployments sometime in future. If you want us to focus on this area more please go ahead and create an issue in our issues page at https://github.com/katanemo/arch/issues
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