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#BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

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Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#301
post #273

Scrolling through the results, I see: - 50% Star Wars imagery (iPhone as stormtrooper once, but usually that ugly green Android guy using a lightsaber on something representing Apple) - 10% Lord of the Rings imagery - Many posts that “support the cause” without delineating any sort of argument - No one disputing that Samsung ripped off Apple’s designs or patents Interesting.

Take a look at the Galaxy Nexus (the phone in question) and tell me which Apple design or patent it infringed. (Bear in mind the unified search patent has prior art - by Google to wit, and is likely to be invalidated)

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, check the timeline history. Apple did not start this. The smartphone incumbents did, after Apple started eating all the profits.

Does it matter? The specific patent that is being used to block these devices, which from what I've read relates to a very weak patent on live search-as-you-type from multiple sources, is a bad patent . It is one thing to say "They are stealing our design." It is another to say, "We happened to get here and patent this first, even though everyone is pretty sure that given enough time and money the patent will be stru…

Apple Legal is at odds with Apple Engineering, trying to litigate away the competition instead of innovating past them

I don't even... what do you expect Apple Legal to innovate? "Accept EULA to unlock?" They aren't at odds with engineering any more than having a good defense is at odds with having a good offense.

Have you used an up-to-date android phone in the last 6 months? Perhaps even gotten to play with an Nexus 7 or a Galaxy S 3? The competition is fierce right now, and Apple has badly mismanaged its money

That's really the heart of the matter. Patents were created to reward innovation by actually disadvantaging competitors that sat around and waited -- because the market by itself doesn't produce brand new things just by competition. Even though Galaxy-whatever today may be a better phone and the economy is hurt on a small scale by holding it back a bit, the economy is improved on a large scale by rewarding the big innovations.

The tech crowd doesn't get that a local meritocracy where the best phone wins optimizes existing things, like making a better keyboard or improved battery life, but it doesn't often lead to an iPhone or other revolutionary change. A pure merit-based market actually punishes innovation -- if you spend years and a billion dollars researching HCI, form factors, etc and your competitors just copy you then you are competing with a billion dollar hand tied behind your back.

Is this particular patent valid? Maybe, maybe not... it doesn't really matter. What really matters is that unless Apple's competitors need to compete much more effectively in order to make up for their lack of innovation then the market has failed.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but developers are more likely to care, and they matter a lot more than the average user. A lot of developers preferred not to use Microsoft products when MS was the evil empire, and there would probably be an MS monopoly now if they hadn't.

No, developers don't matter more than the average user, and that fact is the reason Apple sells so many of their products.

Exactly. Developers go where the money is.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually thinking of buying a Mac for the first time just last week, even after being outraged by the Galaxy Tab 10.1 thing. They have good hardware and it's Linuxy, but thank you Apple for acting sooner with this Nexus rubbish rather than later.. So there you go, an actual sale lost and I'll remember this for a long, long time

So then you're boycotting Motorola and Google products as well because they had a similar injunction against Apple in Germany right? If not why? I find it amusing how emotional tech people get over these patent wars. Its one companies legal team versus the other over legalities and trivialities. If you looked at how often car companies sued each other over look and feel patents you would realize the whole thing is a…

Apple shot first. Google has patents that they can use defensively, I say anything that happens to Apple is fair turn about after the 10.1

You didn't see Google suing Bing over the pagerank algorithm. I'm sure Google has patents relating to map-reduce but distributed computing is still taking off.

If the patent game were played out to its fullest without reform, all innovation would virtually grind to a halt, so a broad gentlemen's agreement is in place not to use patents. Apple don't care, they want to stop innovation so everyone buys their shit. Yes it's capitalism, but it's also marketing, and our consumption choices are the only votes we get in this game.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#305
post #270

What will the immediate consequences be, if the injunction actually goes into effect? I have a ton of questions about this, but basically: - Will Samsung/Google just tweak the software to get around the patent, and continue shipping? - Could Samsung ship the device sans-Software, and have a US based facility install the OS to get around this? - What is the appeal process that Google/Samsung can take? That is, when Sa…

Good thinking.

I wish a high quality device without pre-installed OS was available.

Great specs similar to GNex, at an affordable price comparable to $350 Google charges for unlocked units.

Let customers run whatever OS they wish.

WebOS, Android, iOS, Windows, any one in particular or all at once.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#306
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average person doesn't care. I'm in this industry and I barely care. Watching Google and Apple is like watching NBA players scuffling over the last bottle of champagne. The average person just wants to use their phone, update their Facebook and find out what Snooki is up too. A boycot organized on a site that the muggles have barely heard of over an issue that they don't give two shits about isn't going to affect…

I would have said that the most targeted audience (of a petition) IS the average person. Who is flooded by choice and will take a bad image into account when deciding what to buy. Us techies we tend to be more selfish and buy what we need more than what is trendy, what is not etc...

There really isn't much choice in the smartphone market, despite 20 flavors of Android. If your friends have iPhones, that's what you want. Android is popular among the muggles because it's cheaper. Very few people I've met buy Andeoid because it's better, they buy it because of price. The only Blackberry users I know use it only because of their companies. The average consumer doesn't care about 'morals' when they buy something -- if they did, no one would buy Chinese products, the only chicken sold in stores would be fre range and Wal Mart would have gone out of business a long time ago. People either want the cheapest or the best, not necessarily the 'rightest'.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? The specific patent that is being used to block these devices, which from what I've read relates to a very weak patent on live search-as-you-type from multiple sources, is a bad patent . It is one thing to say "They are stealing our design." It is another to say, "We happened to get here and patent this first, even though everyone is pretty sure that given enough time and money the patent will be stru…

Apple Legal is at odds with Apple Engineering, trying to litigate away the competition instead of innovating past them I don't even... what do you expect Apple Legal to innovate? "Accept EULA to unlock?" They aren't at odds with engineering any more than having a good defense is at odds with having a good offense. Have you used an up-to-date android phone in the last 6 months? Perhaps even gotten to play with an Nexu…

> I don't even... what do you expect Apple Legal to innovate?

Apple Engineering creates great products. Apple Legal pays private security firms and complicit local officials to storm journalist's houses. Apple Engineering is trying to create a reputation as a great place to work, Apple Legal is scaring away engineers left and right. Apple Legal plays dirty, Apple Engineering and Design talk about the nobility of great products.

> The tech crowd doesn't get that a local meritocracy where the best phone wins optimizes existing things, like making a better keyboard or improved battery life, but it doesn't often lead to an iPhone or other revolutionary change. A pure merit-based market actually punishes innovation -- if you spend years and a billion dollars researching HCI, form factors, etc and your competitors just copy you then you are competing with a billion dollar hand tied behind your back.

I'm not sure how Apple hasn't been rewarded for their efforts. What more, exactly, do they need? They've gone from 0 to a lead in smartphone marketshare, dictating the discussion and product form factors the entire time. The entire industry turns on the axis of Apple's release cycles. Their product, "iPad", is practically the "kleenex" name of the post-PC era. They have an incredible stockpile of money, goodwill, and clout in their local government.

Do they also get to make spurious patent claims left and right now, and expect everyone to take them seriously?

> Is this particular patent valid? Maybe, maybe not... it doesn't really matter.

I am pretty sure it matters a lot, as there's nearly $100m in bonds being laid out.

> What really matters is that unless Apple's competitors need to compete much more effectively in order to make up for their lack of innovation then the market has failed.

But they _do_. Please note how many big players in the market have simply been crushed because of their complete inability to adapt to the market forces Apple brought to bear. Nokia? Pif. Blackberry? Swirling down the drain.

Android is only where it is because the remainder of the industry banded together and formed some kind of freakish multi-headed alliance which barely works and has taken twice as long to even begin to compete. And it's taken a ton of money and engineering time dumped in by Google to keep the project from imploding.

The problem, ultimately, is that the patent system is broken. It should not be possible to patent such obvious variations on interface tropes as "search as you type... from multiple sources... also on a phone!" It _should_ be the case that Patent holders get punished for writing broad patents (so that more things qualify as prior art) rather than the current situation where patents receive almost no vetting at all and are seldom challenged.

I'm not sure how much advantage Apple should get for being the first mover, but at some point competition will exist. We've had years of Apple sitting on an epic pile of money and not hiring engineers while the entire valley of has been gobbled up by Google, Facebook, and others. If other companies are finally starting to outpace Apple, it's inevitable given Apple's oddball management decisions. These are the same bad management decisions–in my opinion, of course–that have led Apple to be so very weak when it comes to actually fielding software services. They've had nothing but a string of embarrassments in this field and most people I know in my field are extremely leery about considering employment with Apple in this capacity as a result.

Trying to litigate on weak patents and novel definitions of "irreparable damage (!!!™)" is bad for me, as a consumer. I am yet again disappointed in them, and I am furious at how broken our patent system for software and technical innovation.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#309
"Well it looks like Team Android have conceded a penalty, but the players are crying foul play saying Team Apple dived. Some team Android fans are also attempting to stage a pitch invasion to protest, but are easily held back. Team Apple scores! The game continues..."

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. It works slightly different, first companies like Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and others invested billions of dollars in creating telecommunication standards. Next those companies are forced to license patents for those technologies to Apple. Apple creates phone which base in 95% on technology created by those companies, they are adding several features like "slide to unlock" or "pinch to zoom" and patent it. Sams…

Remember we are talking about only the 3G chip in the iPhone. Just that tiny chip, not the GPS chip, or any other part of the iPhone, and not the whole chip, just one part of Motorola's patents used to make the 3G standard. So a tiny, tiny fraction of the functionality of an iPhone. The patents Motorola is using are called standards-essential, because many companies got together to create a standard, for example, 3G…

By the same standards , Apple is saying that all the value of Galaxy Nexus is worth four patent many of whom are contestable and attributable to broken patent system. As far as I can see apple is saying contextual search done from many resources is worth $349 per galaxy nexus..but 3g that makes such a search possible is not worth $12 assuming retail cost of iPhone as $500. The FRAND is such a easy excuse to hide behind, when you use real technology to make stuff work and are unwilling to pay for it. Compare it with slide to unlock or searching multiple databases on a phone. I am pretty sure none of the technology that Apple 'invented' are being used here. Google came out with their own ways of making this system work.Apple are welcome to come up with their own 3G standards if they don't want to pay for it.
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