Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

ftc.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 793 posts

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#331

Post by ElevenLathe »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #189
pc86 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a great function of elected representatives would be keeping an eye out for these types of businesses that are societal "code smells" indicating something is wrong, and looking at the regulatory and legislative environment to see what would be changed to make those businesses obsolete.

Those who are pro-market probably consider the companies cropping up to be evidence that legislation is not needed (as the market is addressing the issue). I'm not such a person, fwiw.

More pragmatically, the fact that such a business exists might be a sign that we're too late to regulate this. Now there is a constituency who can use the profits from keeping the system broken to lobby to keep the system broken. Look at TurboTax as an example, or defense contracting reform, or the affordable care act. Within the rules of neoliberal capitalism, you can't really use the government to address problems that somebody somewhere is making money from.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#332

Post by conradev »

AlexandrB wrote: post #195
conradev wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think these sorts of contracts should be illegal. I think a lot of things around them should be, like gyms requiring you to go in-person to cancel, or offering a terrible phone service to cancel, or marketing it deceptively such that you were unaware it was a contract. But getting a discount in exchange for a longer-term commitment is often a benefit to consumers. I just paid Visible for a year of cellular se…

> But getting a discount in exchange for a longer-term commitment is often a benefit to consumers. This is already framing it in marketing terms. You're not getting a discount but being charged an artificial price premium for less/no commitment. This can get especially obscene in places where gyms are required by law to offer monthly membership options but they charge a significant markup if you go that route. All of…

It is absolutely not just marketing: https://commoncog.com/cash-flow-games/

Jump to "Pre-payments in the Restaurant Industry"

Money now is more valuable than money later, and guaranteed future money is more valuable than no guaranteed future money.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#333

Post by rootusrootus »

susanthenerd wrote: post #253
amatecha wrote: post #67

Nice. I canceled a service recently and I had to "continue to cancel" and click on other such "confirmations" such that I think I proceeded through 7-8 pages before my subscription was actually canceled. Truly manipulative and obtuse. That was Spotify btw. I should have recorded the process, as it was nearly comedic (if it weren't so hostile).

Services like this are the reason I prefer to pay thru google play. It is much easier to just cancel it

As much as I used to hate them, I've now gained an appreciation for PayPal for this kind of stuff. For when I don't want to give my credit card to yet another vendor to possibly be compromised, or manage a sketchy subscription, PayPal is a pretty good solution. I do prefer Apple, but not every subscription can be bought that way.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#334

Post by datavirtue »

bluGill wrote: post #307
Pigo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting on anything to be done about rent to own businesses. The businesses that rely solely on exploiting the people in a bad position bother me so much, they should at least have some kind of limits on their usury.

Unfortunately the people they "serve" would get nothing as nobody can afford to lend to a bad credit risk at reasonable rates. Of course a lot of what they are selling are luxuries that people with bad credit shouldn't have, but then we have to ask what the alternative is. (most places have terrible public transit so you have to get such people in a car. You don't need a TV for movies but you can't really live life w…

A lot of companies, most, will leave marginalized people behind explicitly to avoid developing solutions for their edge cases. "We don't want those customers." It's come to the point where they try to exclude them up front by requiring 2FA via SMS to establish accounts.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#335

Post by coldpie »

mardifoufs wrote: post #288
NotPractical wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprised that you're being downvoted despite telling the truth, because "politics is off-topic while technology is on-topic" (even though politics is often deeply intertwined with technology).

Sure, everything is political. But that's meaningless, and it just gets tiring to see the same debates over and over because someone said the thing "remember this when you vote". Like yeah, that's usually how voting works; you vote based on policies like this. It would be similar to going into an israel-palestine war thread and saying that "remember, if you vote Biden you're voting for a president that is enabling a…

There's a lot of people who say stuff like "why bother to vote, both sides are the same." I think it's useful to highlight instances like this when there's a clear difference which impacts people directly.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#336

Post by rootusrootus »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #125
krunck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is the worst in this regard.

You should try cancelling the New York Times, Bon Appetite, or Planet Fitness

The NYT was the worst. Had to call them on the phone. The guy I was talking to offered progressively better deals, until he basically offered me a year for next to nothing. I was angry at that point and determined to cancel, and said "No, JUST CANCEL" and he laughed out loud at me. Instant, permanent never-a-NYT-customer again.

I often wonder how these companies predict the expected permanent loss of customers over time due to their tactics and factor that against the expected gain of wearing people down until they just keep paying.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#337

Post by bluGill »

perfectstorm wrote: post #291
VBprogrammer wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a British person this is always so alien when traveling in the US. You could go one step further and suggest that perhaps tips which are practically mandatory should be included in the headline price but that might be a step too far.

tipping culture is so annoying here in the Bay Area. the other day i was at a coffee shop and cashier handed me a device that had suggested tips from 18-22% with no obvious Cancel button. i was infuriated and the cashier had a smug look on her face. she knew what i was looking for and she didn't bother telling me how to skip it. mind you, this was for a coffee to-go order.

I get very annoyed at things like that where there shouldn't be a tip. Tip is for service quality and counter service there is no differentiation in service between different servers. People do go to restaurants and ask for their favorite waiter. There often is a difference in service between different waiters at the same restaurant - enough that I like the ability to pay for good service (if you always give the same tip you are doing it wrong - you should be giving as many 10% tips as 20%.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#338

Post by rootusrootus »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #261
shepherdjerred wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try cancelling the New York Times, Bon Appetite, or Planet Fitness

I went through the cancellation process for NYT once before. Which is the entire reason I am not a subscriber at my current address. It's too bad, I'd pay for it otherwise.

I'm so butthurt about NYT's treatment of me when I wanted to cancel that I won't even consider it through their iOS app, which would be a subscription controlled by Apple (and therefore trivial to cancel).

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#339

Post by otteromkram »

While we're on consumer-friendly initiatives, can the FCC stop offering my personal info to election campaign spammers?

I can't think of any worse way to get me to immediately not vote for you than by sending an unwanted and unreimbursed SMS message.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#340

Post by saturn8601 »

r00fus wrote: post #317
enragedcacti wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have good news! (as long as Lina Khan stays on as commissioner) > FTC Proposes Rule to Ban Junk Fees: The proposed rule would ban businesses from running up the bills with hidden and bogus fees, ensure consumers know exactly how much they are paying and what they are getting, and help spur companies to compete on offering the lowest price. Businesses would have to include all mandatory fees when telling consumers a…

> (as long as Lina Khan stays on as commissioner) She may not be around for long (a travesty in my opinion if so). Neither presidential candidate is stumping for her kind of activism, even the Dem one. And the big money wants her gone. Sure we can vote, but it seems big money has more influence regardless.

While the candidates may not like her, support for her crosses party lines and so there may be enough people to make a stink about it to make it politically unviable. I do concede that both candidates are just terrible on this.
Post reply on HN