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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#181

Post by the_svd_doctor »

thefourthchime wrote: post #156
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Now, let's institute an actual price rule. I can't rent an Airbnb or book a plane ticket without being lied to about what the actual prices is.

For plane that's pretty unfair. If you don't get any ancillary fees, the price you see is almost exactly up to the cent what you pay.

Now if you get any extra, sure. But that's a different problem from Airbnb hiding 100% of the cost in mandatory cleaning fees.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#183

Post by dspillett »

rachofsunshine wrote: post #99
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

This feels like one of those things that could be solved on the payment end with something like a unique payment ID for each subscription, rather than giving a CC number. Then you just enable or disable payment IDs (perhaps for a limited time, e.g., "create a payment ID that works for Netflix for the next three months but not after that"), rather than relying on vendors to decide whether they feel like charging you o…

It isn't something I've seen advertised by credit card companies here (UK) but in the US at least some offer virtual cards whereby you can give different vendors a specific virtual card and cancel that if they don't stop taking payments when you want them to.

As much as I'm not a big fan of PayPal¹ I use that rather than separate credit card payments/subs for online purchases including subs for things like hosting accounts. Stopping a payment from their web UI seems like it would be easier than arranging a chargeback or calling the CC company to put a block on future payments, and it reduces the number of companies that I hand my credit card details too. When I cancel a service I make sure that the sub is cancelled there as well. I always follow the cancellation procedure at the other end too, unless it is obnoxiously bothersome, as just cancelling the payment method feels like I'm being dickish².

----

[1] I'm not sure that I'd risk a business account with them, and I hardly ever keep a balance there, due to the many stories of accounts being frozen for long periods with litle reason and inadequate review.

[2] You might argue that often they'd be more than happy to be dickish, hence the cancellation procedures, but I prefer not to stoop to that level whether they would or not.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#184

Post by dghlsakjg »

pugets wrote: post #147

I once moved towns and needed to cancel my LA Fitness gym membership. I found that they wanted me to go to their website, find the Cancellation Form, print it out, fill it out with my account details, and mail or fax it to their corporate office. I don’t believe there is any way of cancelling it online or over the phone. So instead of doing that all of that, I called my credit card company and asked them to block all…

Just a note:

It is up to the company to not pursue you for the money. Contractually, you probably still owe them the money, unless there is a clause in the contract that says that non-payment is a way to cancel the membership. They could legally pursue that, or sell it to someone else to pursue.

Not paying is not the same thing as not owing. Many companies will just let it drop. Some won't

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#185

Post by conradev »

thefourthchime wrote: post #156
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Now, let's institute an actual price rule. I can't rent an Airbnb or book a plane ticket without being lied to about what the actual prices is.

California did this:

> Guests in California will see a fee-inclusive total price—before taxes—on all listings.

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3610

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#186

Post by bunderbunder »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #144
chrismarlow9 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do keep an eye out, but for lobbying money. The tax system is a good example.

For anyone missing context: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

It's not just Intuit. I doubt that there would be tax breaks specifically for owners of private jets if not for lobbying from companies like Cessna.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#187

Post by invaderzirp »

wnolens wrote: post #30
hypercube33 wrote: post #3

Honestly, this is the best thing if it changes the worst experience I've had cancelling something - Gyms. They make it crazy easy to sign up, but a pain in the ass to stop being a member (for example, if you move and forget to cancel good luck - they want you to come in and talk to the manager in a lot of cases)

In these cases, can we not issue a chargeback via our credit card? Or put some sort of block on transactions from a particular source? Seems silly to just accept virtually un-cancellable terms.

Because a chargeback is for some sort of fraud, and as scummy as crap like this is, it usually doesn't count. It's not a universal "I want this charge to stop" tool. A human WILL review it, and you WILL get dinged, up to and including account termination, if you do it too much and too frivolously.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#188

Post by colechristensen »

thefourthchime wrote: post #156
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Now, let's institute an actual price rule. I can't rent an Airbnb or book a plane ticket without being lied to about what the actual prices is.

The Minnesota law which provides exactly this goes into effect in 2025.

https://www.allaboutadvertisinglaw.com/2024/06/minnesota-joi...

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#189

Post by pbhjpbhj »

pc86 wrote: post #49
fooqux wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The fact that multiple companies are springing up with the main selling point being "help you cancel subscriptions you thought you already cancelled" should be a wake up call to the legislature that this problem has gotten out of hand.

I think a great function of elected representatives would be keeping an eye out for these types of businesses that are societal "code smells" indicating something is wrong, and looking at the regulatory and legislative environment to see what would be changed to make those businesses obsolete.

Those who are pro-market probably consider the companies cropping up to be evidence that legislation is not needed (as the market is addressing the issue). I'm not such a person, fwiw.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#190

Post by Uehreka »

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are.

There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the link) I’m either immediately unsubscribed from the person who sent me the email, or I’m taken to a page which seemingly MUST have a “remove me from all emails” option.

The level of compliance (and they can’t even do malicious compliance!) with this is absurd. If these new rules work anything like that, they’ll be awesome. Clearly regulating behavior like this is indeed possible.

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