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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#171

Post by dghlsakjg »

siliconc0w wrote: post #151

Past canceling, there are so many problems with subscription programs. Too many products are unusable without a subscription that offer no additional value. Or disabling the subscription cripples product features that have no dependency on the remote service. Or they can 'alter the deal' at any point where what you get for what you pay can change despite the fact the product hasn't. Ideally 'the market' would punish…

I think that App stores are a big part of this.

When people buy an app on the app store they kind of expect it to work in perpetuity. This would be fine, but the environment changes and people still expect it to keep working. It is reasonable to expect an app I bought on my iPhone 4 using iOs 4 (or whatever it was) to work in perpetuity on that phone and that OS. It is less reasonable to expect it to run on my iPhone 16 on iOs 18, but that is what people expect.

The other thing that app stores did was dramatically lower the price point of software. In 2000, you could go to the store and expect to pay $50+ for an "app". Now, $9.99 is considered a higher price point, and we expect it to be maintained in perpetuity.

Given those constraints, a subscription model is actually pretty reasonable.

Add in that the investors in many companies are hyper focused on MRR, and subscriptions are the only viable way for a startup to work.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#172

Post by staringback »

thefourthchime wrote: post #156
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Now, let's institute an actual price rule. I can't rent an Airbnb or book a plane ticket without being lied to about what the actual prices is.

> book a plane ticket without being lied to about what the actual prices is

This hasn't been true for at minimum 10 years. Paying for extra leg room is not a "junk fee"

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#173

Post by luddit3 »

thefourthchime wrote: post #156
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Now, let's institute an actual price rule. I can't rent an Airbnb or book a plane ticket without being lied to about what the actual prices is.

Biden admin did add upfront fee declarations to show the consumer the actual price.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#174

Post by cortesoft »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #96

It would be great to see the FTC go against predatory subscription services like Adobe. I'm fuzzy on the exact details, but I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them. One recent idea I've had is that many online subscription services shou…

Man, I remember when Amazon Prime first started, I signed up for the free trial to get free shipping on something. Of course, I forgot about it and didn’t cancel, but then I got an email from Amazon saying, “hey, you didn’t cancel your prime subscription but you also haven’t used it at all, so we are going to not charge you and cancel it for now. Here is how you easily restart your subscription if you end up needing it”

It was such a wonderful feeling that clearly impacted me so much I remember it some 20 years later. I gained SO MUCH loyalty to Amazon after that, and sure enough, I restarted my prime subscription a bit later when I got a better job and started ordering more stuff. They made so much more money off me because they sacrificed those few dollars for one month of my subscription fee to show me they weren’t just trying to make me forget to cancel.

Amazon today would never do that, of course, but man I think more companies should if they want long term, loyal, customers.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#175

Post by cogman10 »

thefourthchime wrote: post #156
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Now, let's institute an actual price rule. I can't rent an Airbnb or book a plane ticket without being lied to about what the actual prices is.

"Fees" on top of the top line price should be illegal. It's just a way to smuggle in a 100% increase in the purchase price to get an initial buy in for a product. It is super scammy.

Heck, I would even take this a step further and say that taxes as well should always be fully included in the topline price. If a company wants to add a breakdown of how much went to taxes, I'm ok with that.

The sticker price should always be the full price.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#176

Post by invaderzirp »

bilsbie wrote: post #104

It seems like all this sketchiness actually hurts these companies. I do ten times more subscriptions when I can go through apple and know I can cancel in 5 seconds.

If it does, then "record profits" sure is a bizarre way to punish them.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#177

Post by candiddevmike »

_hcuq wrote: post #135
datadrivenangel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem, is that not paying does not get you out of the legal obligation to pay. Most companies won't follow up because the cost isn't worth it, but there are definitely organizations that will go after you or sell your debts to collection agencies... The marginal cost to a gym/ISP of the remaining duration of your contract is basically zero, especially if you're not going to use it, and they can get a few more d…

Yes. The problem is the current law. Which needs to be changed. Make these predatory contracts illegal.

I don't think this is a bad idea. Each month you would confirm whether you want to continue with the service, and if you say no or don't respond, it stops. If you think this would be annoying, then pay for a year (or more) in advance. This method would in theory reduce/remove the ability for folks to perform mid-month chargebacks under the guise of "I forgot to cancel".

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#179

Post by invaderzirp »

nerdjon wrote: post #56

> will require sellers to make it as easy for consumers to cancel their enrollment as it was to sign up. I am very curious what exactly this means? Is it the number of pages or forms you had to fill out? People you had to talk too? So if for my internet I had to have someone come out to install it before service would start could they argue that they require someone to physically come out to turn off service? Or a ca…

You're overthinking it. If there's any confusion, it will go to court, and reasonable humans will decide that, actually, the form being in a filing cabinet in the basement isn't actually reasonable.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#180

Post by freedomben »

There's a particular car wash chain in Utah called "Quick Quack" that I hope gets hammered by this. They are the most eploitative I've ever seen. Super, super easy to subscribe. Literally just say "yes" when asked and they'll get it all set up. Cancelling however, good luck. Sad part is I really liked the product, but unless they radically change the subscription BS I'll never be back.
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