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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#61

Post by admissionsguy »

llamaimperative wrote: post #39
randcraw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could ANYBODY vote against this?

[flagged]

> this is the actual faithful steelman argument for the people who vote against this.

My argument is different. There should not be any regulation except where existentially necessary (e.g. you need government to manage an army, because otherwise someone else will conquer the country, this sort of thing).

Sure, most rules sound good in isolation. But in aggregate you end up with huge administration and 50% marginal tax rate and massive regulatory burden to businesses. Not able to cancel a subscription easily after you willingly enter into a relationship with some business is too tiny an issue to merit expanding the government monster.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#62

Post by Workaccount2 »

minkzilla wrote: post #38
randcraw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could ANYBODY vote against this?

Posted elsewhere in this thread but here is the reasoning why from Melissa Holyoak, who voted no. This rule goes further than just the cancellation mentioned in this article and there are some legitimate concerns with that. It is unclear but I think Melissa Holyoak would have voted yes if it was just the cancellation rule. https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/holyoak-dissent...

[flagged]

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#63

Post by crazygringo »

high_na_euv wrote: post #15
hypercube33 wrote: post #3

Honestly, this is the best thing if it changes the worst experience I've had cancelling something - Gyms. They make it crazy easy to sign up, but a pain in the ass to stop being a member (for example, if you move and forget to cancel good luck - they want you to come in and talk to the manager in a lot of cases)

How did it even evolve into such a mess? Cannot you just go to random gym, pay for enterance and do ya thing without signing stuff?

Often no.

Most gyms I've been to do not allow local residents to purchase 1-day passes.

They do often allow people visiting (on business etc.) to purchase a daily or weekly pass. But may need your ID to prove that, and you can only do that so many times. Like if you visit for two weeks once a year they're happy to. If you come once a month for business, you're gonna need a full membership.

And you've always gotta sign stuff no matter what. For liability, so they know who to contact if you keel over on the treadmill, and so forth.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#64

Post by llamaimperative »

macinjosh wrote: post #44
llamaimperative wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course Republican commissioners are going to vote "no" if the FTC is handing out popular rulings like candy just before the election. What? Why is that defensible? Make life worse/keep life bad for Americans so we have a better chance in an election? Do you hear yourself?

Why is it defensible for an administration to wait until the last days of their term, right around election time, to do their job?

See here for a rebuttal of the same argument on a different topic:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41626381

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41626251

Short answer is that you're just not paying attention.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#65

Post by macinjosh »

coldpie wrote: post #47
macinjosh wrote: post #41

meh, it is just an executive regulation that will go away the next time the party in power changes if it isn't shot down in court first. it doesn't help my skepticism that these sort of people/consumer first policies don't come out of these administrations until it is election time. They could have done this years ago but why if they couldn't benefit as well?

The FTC has been on a bit of a tear since Khan was appointed in 2021. I guess this one finally made it through the paperwork now. Sort by date here to see a bunch of tech-related stuff they've done under this admin: https://arstechnica.com/search/?q=ftc

lol, ok. I don't know what a "tear" is but everything listed there is either a lawsuit or news that a court struck down their policy. I don't see other policies like this one. Also check the dates, way off. haha

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#66

Post by jmspring »

ssharp wrote: post #50

My workaround to this has been to email the company telling them I want to cancel. Once I either don't get a reply, or get a reply saying "just call us and we'll cancel!", I dispute the next charge with American Express and have the email record of trying to cancel. I believe they also offer a "stop allowing charges by this merchant" feature that cuts off future charges.

This is good to know. I had Dropbox billing through PayPal and could never cancel charges in anyway through the Dropbox site. Realized I had to disassociate PayPal and the recurring charge said “payment failed”. Finally effectively canceled.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#67

Post by amatecha »

Nice. I canceled a service recently and I had to "continue to cancel" and click on other such "confirmations" such that I think I proceeded through 7-8 pages before my subscription was actually canceled. Truly manipulative and obtuse. That was Spotify btw. I should have recorded the process, as it was nearly comedic (if it weren't so hostile).

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#68

Post by SoftTalker »

hypercube33 wrote: post #3

Honestly, this is the best thing if it changes the worst experience I've had cancelling something - Gyms. They make it crazy easy to sign up, but a pain in the ass to stop being a member (for example, if you move and forget to cancel good luck - they want you to come in and talk to the manager in a lot of cases)

Some of the franchised gyms do this but in my experience local gyms often do not. At my local gym their memberships are for a "defined term" (3 months, 6 months, etc.) and if you don't renew, they end. I've never tried to end one early but knowing the owner and how he runs the place I am quite sure it would not be an issue.

You can also just pay as you go, i.e. per visit but that ends up being a lot more expensive.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#69

Post by macinjosh »

fckgw wrote: post #51
macinjosh wrote: post #41

meh, it is just an executive regulation that will go away the next time the party in power changes if it isn't shot down in court first. it doesn't help my skepticism that these sort of people/consumer first policies don't come out of these administrations until it is election time. They could have done this years ago but why if they couldn't benefit as well?

The FTC has been doing a ton of stuff the last 4 years, you just haven't been paying attention.

Such a long list you've shared. Besides lawsuits and policies already struck down what pro-consumer policy have the enacted prior to Nov 2023 (the start of the presidential election)

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#70

Post by [deleted] »

pc86 wrote: post #49
fooqux wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The fact that multiple companies are springing up with the main selling point being "help you cancel subscriptions you thought you already cancelled" should be a wake up call to the legislature that this problem has gotten out of hand.

I think a great function of elected representatives would be keeping an eye out for these types of businesses that are societal "code smells" indicating something is wrong, and looking at the regulatory and legislative environment to see what would be changed to make those businesses obsolete.

[deleted]
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