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#BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

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Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Apple start suing Android OEMs first? If I remember correctly, there was a mutual destruction pact before then.

No, check the timeline history. Apple did not start this. The smartphone incumbents did, after Apple started eating all the profits.

Does it matter?

The specific patent that is being used to block these devices, which from what I've read relates to a very weak patent on live search-as-you-type from multiple sources, is a bad patent.

It is one thing to say "They are stealing our design." It is another to say, "We happened to get here and patent this first, even though everyone is pretty sure that given enough time and money the patent will be struck down... but we're going to sue anyways."

One is a economically sound, consumer benefitting action. The other is the opposite. Apple Legal is at odds with Apple Engineering, trying to litigate away the competition instead of innovating past them. No one benefits from a patent apocalypse, least of all patent holders. In this, many other companies have shown much more restraint.

But still, I sort of get it. Have you used an up-to-date android phone in the last 6 months? Perhaps even gotten to play with an Nexus 7 or a Galaxy S 3? The competition is fierce right now, and Apple has badly mismanaged its money (by not expanding their engineering capacity enough) so that they're in the awkward situation of having to litigate to try and keep up.

Apple has never pretended to have scruples in the legal department, so it's not out of character for them to twist the broken patent system to its very limits to get what they want. But we should call them on it. Maybe we should even inform our purchases with that knowledge, because their business strategy is not good for us as consumers.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple should pay. No questions about that. But how much should they pay? In this special case of patents, Motorola is expected to charge Apple the same rates as other licensees. In fact, they have committed to do so. But now, they are going back on that commitment and also trying to double dip. FRAND (Fair, Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory) patent commitment is an essential part of standard setting process. If compa…

I don't think Apple should pay. And I question whether anyone else should, either. These "standards-essential" patents are under RAND terms because to do otherwise devalues the patent and provides incentive for the standard to "work around" the patent. If Motorola wants revenue from that patent, they must license it under RAND terms. But now that there is significant investment in the infrastructure that uses these s…

Rather than having this ambiguous FRAND principle, standards bodies should require that companies that want their patents included in a standard hand over these patents to a patent pool in return for a shareholding in that pool.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Apple start suing Android OEMs first? If I remember correctly, there was a mutual destruction pact before then.

No, check the timeline history. Apple did not start this. The smartphone incumbents did, after Apple started eating all the profits.

According to this Wikipedia article this is not true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_wars

Nokia started suing Apple in 2009. I do not consider them a smartphone incumbent. After some back and forth between the two companies Apple sued the first Android manufacturer (HTC).

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reason: Motorola refused to offer them Fair Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory (FRAND) terms; unlike the terms given to the rest of the licensees.

But legally does that matter? Can a corporation pick and choose what patents/royalties or whatever they are to pay for if you use them just because the corporation deems it to be unfair?

Absolutely, yes. And the other side is allowed to sue in court.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#285
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are accusing her of bribery, that is a very serious allegation. Imagine if such a thing happens and is eventually exposed. What a scandal would it be. I don't think any large company, let alone Apple, would want to be involved in any such mess.

There's a valid point in his statement. Its just that you haven't thought about it deeply yet. A dozen OEM's including HTC, Samsung and the rest, have about a 50 phone models in total (assume 50 for simplicity). Atleast one phone model from these OEM's is under litigation and/or have been banned w.r.t patents. Apple, is a single company with just 2-3 phones and NONE of these phones have been banned yet. This must mea…

Or it could be that android is violating lots of patents, and the common thread is they are all making android phones. Note that they are also all paying Microsoft. It seems the common thread isn't apple and Microsoft doing something wrong, rather it is android.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average person doesn't care. I'm in this industry and I barely care. Watching Google and Apple is like watching NBA players scuffling over the last bottle of champagne. The average person just wants to use their phone, update their Facebook and find out what Snooki is up too. A boycot organized on a site that the muggles have barely heard of over an issue that they don't give two shits about isn't going to affect…

True, but developers are more likely to care, and they matter a lot more than the average user. A lot of developers preferred not to use Microsoft products when MS was the evil empire, and there would probably be an MS monopoly now if they hadn't.

Developers matter a lot.

Developers know which users and platforms pay out the best (iOS) and this is what guides their efforts. Not patent infringement, injunctions or boycotts.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#287
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's talk about that in context. Motorola contributed some patents to a mobile telecom standard; they made a commitment to license these standard essential patents in Fair, Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory terms to everyone who wants to build a "portable hand-held telephone device". Motorola wants 2.25% of the sale price of each Apple device in which the standard is used. Now, if each patent contributor to the stan…

Let's see here... Motorola together with telecom companies such as Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens etc worked for decades in establishing standards and infrastructure for digital mobile phones. In this they were truly succesful, and this would not have been possible unless they had shared patents with each other that were involved in common standards. Then, much later, enters Apple and brings nothing to the table with regar…

> Why should they not pay?

A patent owner can accept FRAND conditions and the patent becomes part of the standard. They then earn a steady stream of licensing money off the ensuing trillion dollar industry.

A patent owner can reject FRAND and their technology does not get included in the standard.

There is no third option.

You can't decide after the trillion dollar industry establishes, to renege on FRAND, because your patent was only made part of the standard -- and therefore only has value -- because of that promise.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reason: Motorola refused to offer them Fair Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory (FRAND) terms; unlike the terms given to the rest of the licensees.

But legally does that matter? Can a corporation pick and choose what patents/royalties or whatever they are to pay for if you use them just because the corporation deems it to be unfair?

Yes. It does. See recent case which was thrown out because they were trying to leverage FRAND patents inappropriately.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#289
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a valid point in his statement. Its just that you haven't thought about it deeply yet. A dozen OEM's including HTC, Samsung and the rest, have about a 50 phone models in total (assume 50 for simplicity). Atleast one phone model from these OEM's is under litigation and/or have been banned w.r.t patents. Apple, is a single company with just 2-3 phones and NONE of these phones have been banned yet. This must mea…

Or it could be that android is violating lots of patents, and the common thread is they are all making android phones. Note that they are also all paying Microsoft. It seems the common thread isn't apple and Microsoft doing something wrong, rather it is android.

Most of these companies even manufacture Windows Phones, so it makes sense to license them with Microsoft (Eg: HTC, LG). And, the patent that Microsoft is suing OEM's with is related to ActiveSync. While Apple is ridiculously suing these OEM's for other pretty trivial patents which are not related to anything like ActiveSync. So, Apple and Microsoft are not on the same track as you think.
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