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Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

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Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#211

Post by jccooper »

tim333 wrote: post #207
slg wrote: post #63

How is stuff like this not considered fraud? This seems much worse to me than Musk's usual Tesla lies in which he is predicting some future capability. At least there is an argument that Musk believed it those at the time he said them or that they were optimistically possible despite being impractical. This seems to be material misrepresentation of the viability of one of the company's core R&D projects that Musk cla…

Musk's speech: >So now one of the things we wanted to show tonight was uh that Optimus is not a canned video. It's not walled off. The Optimus robots will walk among you. Please please be nice to the Optimus robots. So you'll be able to walk right up to them and um they'll serve drinks at the bar and uh you'll directly - I mean that's it's it's a wild experience just to have humanoid robots and it's they're there the…

Elon's a master at saying things that people read as something more than he actually said. I knew without seeing it that there's 0 chance that he (or anyone) actually said they're autonomous. But also that he didn't say they're not.

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#212

Post by me_me_me »

TeeWEE wrote: post #110

This results in me trusting Tesla less. If this was fake, how do we know the robovans were not remotely operated? They might as well be too to get the stock price up? There is no way to know. I am really doubting Tesla now. It wouldn’t surprise me that, in order to prevent mishaps during the event, everything is remotely operated… People will say: that’s not true. But where did Tesla clearly specify this upfront? I s…

less?

The full self driving was one year away for 15 years now.

Batteryswap charging, beating fuel pump station demo - clearly fake.

Tesla Truck beating rail - few trucks made to carry potato chips/crisps ie 99% air.

Solar roof tiles.

Optimus being used in Tesla factories.

The bus had an inch of clearance. What kind of road that prototype was designed for. Besides the wheels had tires painted over gold to look better. Lookup the pictures.

Do you even remember tesla roadster? Its coming out next year, trust me bro.

Cybertruck... more like clusterfuck. Offroad truck brickable by a carwash.

How do people have trust in any claims by Musk?

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#213

Post by me_me_me »

threatofrain wrote: post #194
zo1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this thread disturbing, and with 0 examples as to why you guys think that about him. Like what are these things he's written and said.

Elon Musk was insulted over the internet by an emergency worker during a deadly rescue of children trapped in a flooded cave, and he responded by accusing the rescue worker of pedophelia. Elon doubled down repeatedly on the claim, such as by later clarifying that by pedophile he meant sex with young Thai boys. He also hired an investigator to try and find any dirt on the rescue worker. Now he says this is just his wa…

> He also hired an investigator to try and find any dirt on the rescue worker. Now he says this is just his way of having fun.

Let me translate it for Musk fans. He repeatedly tried to ruin a life of a hero, because he felt insulted. Its also fun.

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#214

Post by me_me_me »

_ea1k wrote: post #64
slg wrote: post #63

How is stuff like this not considered fraud? This seems much worse to me than Musk's usual Tesla lies in which he is predicting some future capability. At least there is an argument that Musk believed it those at the time he said them or that they were optimistically possible despite being impractical. This seems to be material misrepresentation of the viability of one of the company's core R&D projects that Musk cla…

Quite a few people at the event asked employees about this and were directly given the answer. It wasn't a secret.

Everyone working for Elisabeth Holmes knew it was all fake is not an excuse that worked for her

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#215

Post by jjk166 »

robotresearcher wrote: post #184
jjk166 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery density is only an issue if these things are spending most of their time moving long distances. If you are targeting a drop in replacement for a human worker who is spending most of their time at a workstation, it can be plugged in while working. Even in a scenario where the robot can not be connected to power while working, that's easily solved with redundancy - get two robots, one works while the other char…

> easily solved with redundancy - get two robots. Yay, twice as expensive. And power tethers on robots suck so hard. Try it sometime, you’ll hate it.

And how much more expensive is the twice as efficient power system that hasn't been developed yet?

Nearly all robots in actual use have tethers, it's really not a big concern. Further there are other methods of providing power, such as induction. For any situation where long range mobility is really a concern, you probably don't want a humanoid robot to begin with.

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#217

Post by mmooss »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #199
mmooss wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk needs a high stock price and a loan?

Yes that is usually the way things go for rich people. They have an asset and take out a loan against the asset (e.g. stocks). Say $10M. This does not count as income. Then they spend the money on what they want and refinance the loan with another loan, say $20M on their grown assets. Then you spend more money, again with no income, so no taxes. When the asset goes up, you refinance. When the assets crash, banks can…

Why would banks participate? Do they profit?

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#218

Post by zo1 »

philistine wrote: post #178
zo1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this thread disturbing, and with 0 examples as to why you guys think that about him. Like what are these things he's written and said.

Do you think you look convincing, trying to pretend you're not aware of Elon Musk's reputation? He's literally the richest person on Earth. It's as if you're pretending you don't know what Santa Claus is about. I've heard of Santa Claus, but what does he do exactly?

I know who he is, what are you going on about? Why don't you give me some examples of why you think he's a bad person?

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#219

Post by jvanderbot »

sterlind wrote: post #35
jvanderbot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in robotics for over 10 years, at state of the art labs and high quality startups. There are really only two hard problems in robotics: Perception and Funding. Perception, especially around a bunch of people, with depth, mapping, understanding traffic and gestures, all in real time etc etc will be a huge problem for these machines for a while. Funding though? I doubt that's an issue right now.

That surprises me. I thought motion planning and motor control would be harder - old memories of Asimo falling helplessly trying to climb stairs, the clunkiness of a robot aligning itself perfectly with a drawer before executing a scripted-looking action to pull the handle, the obvious recorded sequence Atlas uses to get up from a fall. I know Boston Dynamics does impressive acrobatics, but it's all legs and no arms.…

How much of that is actually perception though?

"Where can I put my feet safely?"

"What is the orientation and 6 higher order velocities of my body?"

etc.

I've been told that a perfectly observable / estimable system is trivially controllable. It's one of the reasons I believe perception is upstream of everything - interaction dynamics alone are nearly impossible to just wave away with models.

I don't even work in perception. But I know that everything is fine until you try to go online with perception in the loop. Then you are behind the perception team's debugging nearly all the time.

Re: Tesla Optimus Bots Were Remotely Operated at Cybercab Event

#220

Post by nomel »

resters wrote: post #206
nomel wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re simplifying things a bit here. The tariffs are to protect all US car manufacturers (who all have EV directives) from BYD, who was strategically subsidized by the government to crush EV companies, including Tesla [1]. Tesla would be able to compete much easier if we were to throw out the environmental regulations and better utilize slave labor [2]. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-10/byd-got-…

> The tariffs are to protect all US car manufacturers Most of the US car manufacturers would have gone out of business in 2008 if the US government had not bailed them out. How can anything China is doing to help BYD compare with that? Yet Tesla still needs 100% tariffs on BYD vehicles to compete?! Environmental regulations and alleged "slave labor" in China hasn't bothered the US government or US consumers for decad…

> Yet Tesla still needs 100% tariffs on BYD vehicles to compete?!

Why does Canada also have 100% tariff? Why do you think the tariffs are only for Tesla? Again, all US car companies have a fairly ludicrous government mandate [1] for EV production:

> In April, the EPA finalized its “Multi-Pollutant Emissions Standards for Light-Duty and Medium-Duty Vehicles for MY 2027 and Later” rule that could effectively call for 44% of new vehicles in 2030 and 56% of new vehicles sold in 2032 to be EVs. This rule greatly exceeds the current real-world consumer demand for EVs. Also, the rule projects that gas-powered vehicles (including hybrids and plug-in hybrids), now currently 92.9% of the market, could be reduced to 29% by 2032.

Chevy, Ford, and Toyota lose billions [2][3][4] per year making EV. They need this too. Tesla is the only US car company that profits from EV sales. Tesla, by every metric, needs it the least.

> necessitates 100% tariffs to protect US firms from competition

ICE cars are made of metal and plastic. There's a nice local and global market for these. BEV need lithium and cobalt. The US makes 2% of the lithium worldwide, with its single mine in a single location [5]. Lithium is 30-50% the final cost of a BEV. China makes 7%, but the Chinese companies have helped secure 80% of worldwide production [6]. Chinese companies owns 15 of 17 cobalt mines in DRC, where 80% of cobalt comes from [7]. The line between where a Chinese company ends and the CCP begins can be very very blurry. This is the result of very smart investment in China, and a big fuck-you to the environment and labor (making imports illegal [8]), like the good old days of the US.

> Meanwhile in the US we are bringing back steel mills and coal fire power plants!

China is responsible for 95% of new coal plant construction [9].

> giga-pressed luxury items

The giga pressing is to make them cheaper. Many car companies are looking at this for cost saving, including Toyota [10].

I agree with cars being too expensive. I've never looked into the breakdown for why. But, for the realm I work in, China is no longer much cheaper for labor. I suspect that's related.

[1] https://www.nada.org/legislative/epas-de-facto-electric-vehi...

[2] Ford loses over 4 billion with EV: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/28/ford-embraces-hybrids-as-it-...

[3] Chevy over 4 billion loses with EV: https://fortune.com/2024/04/24/gm-earnings-beat-gas-ev-elect...

[4] Toyota loses 4.7 billion with EV: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota....

[5] US only lithium mine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacker_Pass_lithium_mine#:~:t....

[6] China lithium monopoly: https://orcasia.org/article/602/chinas-monopoly-over-lithium....

[7] China 80% rare earth, 15/17 coral mines in DRC: https://georgetownsecuritystudiesreview.org/2023/06/01/china...

[8] Battery import illegal forced labor: https://www.reuters.com/business/us-imports-auto-parts-face-...

[9] China 95% coal plant construction: https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-responsible-for-95-of-new-...

[10] Toyota giga casting: https://insideevs.com/news/671943/toyota-giga-casting/

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