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#BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

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Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#151

Post by saalweachter »

calinet6 wrote: post #141
jclulow wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think suggesting that nobody is hurt by ridiculous injunctions like this is a bit disingenuous. Firstly, consumers are denied the chance to purchase a product that exists; it's been made! It's ready to ship! Sure, you might not want one, but it's certainly possible that other people do. Something else an injuction does is robs a manufacturer of any time-to-market advantage that they may have had releasing the produ…

Well if you put it that way, why the hell would Apple not try to get this injunction? Any public company in their right mind should take advantage of this sort of market advantage. The legal/patent system that allows this is broken, that's certain. But can we really blame Apple for using it to their advantage? It's sort of genius. Evil genius, but still...

Yes.

I'd prefer to just leave the post at that, but to make a bit more of a contribution to discussion, fiduciary duty is a myth invented sometime in the 70s or 80s. No one has ever been sued for not maximizing the profits of the company the run. A corporation doesn't have to be evil, even if being evil were more profitable than being good. They can just choose to be less profitable and no one cares.

Given the choice, I'd much rather live in a mildly competitive, mildly cooperative capitalism where companies compete on things like price and quality (and salary!) without trying to burn the crops and salt the fields of the competitors the way Apple is now.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#152

Post by mitchty »

coopdog wrote: post #134
lnanek2 wrote: post #116

Wow, so people who want to buy Samsung instead of Apple anyway are going to boycott Apple? Apple is quaking in their boots, I'm sure.

I was actually thinking of buying a Mac for the first time just last week, even after being outraged by the Galaxy Tab 10.1 thing. They have good hardware and it's Linuxy, but thank you Apple for acting sooner with this Nexus rubbish rather than later.. So there you go, an actual sale lost and I'll remember this for a long, long time

So then you're boycotting Motorola and Google products as well because they had a similar injunction against Apple in Germany right? If not why?

I find it amusing how emotional tech people get over these patent wars. Its one companies legal team versus the other over legalities and trivialities. If you looked at how often car companies sued each other over look and feel patents you would realize the whole thing is a non issue. If you want to change things start with the legal frameworks that allow it to happen. Complaining that companies are using every trick available is somewhat of a non surprise. You might want to start with the patent office and their granting of patents though.

But "I'll remember this for a long, long time", really? That is quite sad, evaluate technology for its tech, not for the companies legal team. But whatever.

Note: I'm not arguing for or against apple or google and their legal teams with this post at all.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#153

Post by recoiledsnake »

sbuk wrote: post #83
tikhonj wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the problem, isn't it? Even if Google produces prior art, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did (although I haven't actually looked at the patents so I can't be 100% certain), the injunction would still exist. So yes, there is a well understood process for invalidating patents. And that is, no doubt, going to play a major role in the case. But all that comes after the problem itself--the injunction lasts…

"...instead of being nice..." There is the problem. Apple is a business, it doesn't exist for altruistic reasons. Neither does Google, no matter how vehemently they say that they do. As others have pointed out, there doesn't seem to be a boycott on Google for their part in the attempt to gain an import ban of the XBox or their support of the alleged abuse of FRAND patents, both by their newly acquired subsidiary. App…

> there doesn't seem to be a boycott on Google for their part in the attempt to gain an import ban of the XBox or their support of the alleged abuse of FRAND patents, both by their newly acquired subsidiary.

That is because the perception is that they're using it to countersue Microsoft and Apple who filed the first volleys.

>Apple are playing the same legal game as Google are.

No, Apple was the initial aggressor against HTC, Motorola and Samsung.

And that matters a lot. Have you seen the PC OEMs sue each other over patents like this? They seem to compete in the marketplace like most other industries.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#154

Post by reaganing »

coopdog wrote: post #134
lnanek2 wrote: post #116

Wow, so people who want to buy Samsung instead of Apple anyway are going to boycott Apple? Apple is quaking in their boots, I'm sure.

I was actually thinking of buying a Mac for the first time just last week, even after being outraged by the Galaxy Tab 10.1 thing. They have good hardware and it's Linuxy, but thank you Apple for acting sooner with this Nexus rubbish rather than later.. So there you go, an actual sale lost and I'll remember this for a long, long time

Why do you feel so strongly about this but not about Motorola (and by extension, Google) trying to do the same thing to Apple's devices?[1]

Not that I like any of this, just saying Apple's hardly the only company that does this, they all do it.

[1]: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-25/google-s-motorola-w...

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#155

Post by raganesh »

ralfn wrote: post #136
raganesh wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are taking Mobster analogy, I'd like to propose one for Google/Motorola: Loan Shark (not a community bank). They pledged to license certain patents in Fair, Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory terms, when they contributed them to Telecom & H.264 patent pools; but now they are not very keen on keeping their commitment.

Loan shark. Fair enough. Although i do want to emphasize that only offensive parties are being hit with the frand patents. I really do think thats the most relevant moral ground here.

I disagree on the offensive party part - in Feb 2012, Google/Motorola used a pager-era patent to get an injunction against multiple Apple devices[1] in Germany. Apple had to disable iCloud push email feature to get their products back on shelf.

[1]http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/02/apple-faces-double-wham...

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#156

Post by shangaslammi »

taligent wrote: post #66
shangaslammi wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually looked at the four patents used in this litigation? I think it's highly arguable whether Apple really invented any of those concepts.

There is a clear and well understood process for invalidating those patents - prior art. If you don't believe Apple invented them then come forward and provide some evidence. I would imagine Google and the Android OEMs would throw a few million your way for the trouble.

The problem is that just as there's a lot of room for interpretation regarding whether something falls under a certain software patent or not, whether something get ruled as valid prior art by a specific judge is likewise a crapshoot.

Secondly, IANAL and I might be mistaken, but I'm under the impression that the current case is solely about whether Samsung violates the patents or not. The validity of the patents themselves would have to be argued in a separate court case.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#158

Post by Afal »

shimfish wrote: post #90
boredguy8 wrote: post #12

Wow that live stream update is a nightmare - I keep trying to read what's happened and things get pushed down almost immediately. A clickable (or w/e) "18 new posts" would make it usable.

To save you the trouble, it's a stream of content free fanboyism and witless photoshoppery. Every single comment would be downvoted to oblivion if it were posted here.

on reddit however...

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#159

Post by rsheridan6 »

calinet6 wrote: post #138
baby wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I extremely disagree with you, a boycott is the perfect weapon again a big brand like apple. People just tell others about it, and it's just really bad for their image.

Anyone who would write or respond to a boycott of Apple is already the sort who gets into flame wars against the company to begin with, so it is, as they say, "preaching to the choir." Not likely to have a big effect.

I've owned two MacBooks, a MacBook Pro, and two iPhones, but I won't now. No more. I had no particular reason to want to boycott them then before because they weren't behaving atrociously at that time. The kind of person who would boycott Apple now is the kind of person who would have boycotted Microsoft back in the day, which also happens to be the kind of person (or one kind of person) who would have bought Apple products.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#160

Post by recoiledsnake »

jaebrown wrote: post #148
shmerl wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If company behaves indecently (like Apple does) it deserves to be boycotted. The fact that it's influential is even a bigger reason to boycott it. Influential crooks are more dangerous.

Not to say you're not right but just about every company behaves indecently. Samsung, Google, Microsoft and others all have their offenses in the people's eye for what is right but this is business and we people should just let it play itself out in court.

> but this is business and we people should just let it play itself out in court.

I'd be okay if the patents in question were not trivial and something really innovative(like RSA).

Also, consumers should make decisions based on their convictions too. For example, I shop at CostCo instead of Sam's Club because CostCo treats their employees much better than Walmart(which owns Sams) does.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

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