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The quiet art of attention

billwear.github.io

261–270 of 291 posts

Re: The quiet art of attention

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet he cannot explain where the impulses come from. It isn't necessary to explain where they come from to argue they are not, by our definition, freely made. Either they are causal, we can rewind time to the exact moment, where everything is the same, and you would make the same choice again, or there is a level of randomness inserted, which is also not free will. If you introspect, you will find that you do no…

> If you are asked to pick your favorite philosopher, you will have a few names pop into your mind, but you will not have control over those few names. Free will is not about choosing what comes into one's head after sending an inquiry out into the universe, it is solely about what we do with our physical body. That is part of why choosing to focus on the highly cerebral work of programming is so difficult. > because…

I believe we are talking past each other.

> So a three-pack-a-day smoker cannot quit? A lifetime racist cannot jettison those beliefs and choose to understand the truth that we are all just human beings? A believer in selfless love cannot become a child molester or otherwise oppress others?

I did not say a single one of those things, what I am saying is that each of those things happening were not done as a result of free will, they were the result of the sum of the things that preceded them. The smoker being fed up with family encouraging them to quit, the decades of anti smoking messaging finally pushing them over the edge, and the day they couldn't walk up the hill without taking a rest to breathe all resulted in them quitting. I believe replaying the universe from the big bang to that moment would result in the same thing, each time.

> But you must still choose to do such loving service, at the time the opportunity presents itself. In those moments, once your mind presents you with the possibility to manifest generosity, you must engage your free will, reach into your pocket/wallet, and give the money.

This is where we fundamentally, irreconcilably disagree. The decision to do so is not free, much like your favorite philosophers, it came forth when you "sent the inquiry into the universe." The meta "decision" to move from thought to action came about the same way. To be honest, I'm not sure what the rest of what you wrote has to do with what I said - I don't find belief in, or even a desire for, free will to exist to be a prerequisite for generosity, kindness, or happiness.

While I have considered this for quite some time, I found this discussion to be the one that "pushed me over the edge," since it helped to reconcile what I observed within with the way things work I understand them (philosophically at least) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u45SP7Xv_oU

Re: The quiet art of attention

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best we can do with them is to "pay them no mind", i.e. just let them pass though us and then into the void of non-effect. The important understanding is that we can choose to act upon them or ignore them. Ignoring negative impulses is essential for developing compassion as a way of life, and doing so is no less than warfare, the most important we can ever undertake. Of course, if the impulse is "you left the bur…

How?! Sometimes I feel a family is a path to more busy-brained activity. Less inclination to actually look what the mind is doing at a given moment. So I’m interested in that. But also logistically, what is a life of poverty for you, and how did you come to achieve it?

Well, what I call poverty is merely the American technical definition for the term; it bears no resemblance to what most other countries of the world would call poverty, e.g. the favelas of Brasil, most of Africa, etc. As such, we have EBT (formerly called Food Stamps) that we use to pay for some food each month; as well, we live in a subsidized apartment so our three-bedroom is below market rate, though in a polluted area of the city (via both nearby traffic and nearby commercial businesses), where most children haven't had the quality of diet and environment we take care to provide for ours. My education, predilection towards curiosity about scitech and better-living, and luck of good schooling (G&T with an AppleII in 6th grade) via large 80s defense budgets has also provided me with a lifetime of education (via internet since 1988 with no TV) such that I used our pandemic stimulus money to buy two $600 RabbitAir high-quality air purifiers (they are fantastic!) and some plants. That's just one example, though an important one.

What I can say is that creation has provided what we needed, first through my previous life as a successful programmer, but since, through my wife's love for and excellence in cooking, while I am an attentive home-schooler (it is easy in our state; an unexpected and rare benefit of fundamentalist thinking) and home IT specialist, keeping the education and fun flowing, but in simple but meaningful dimensions. Plus, we take the kids to wonderful parks where good air and nature can be found. Most importantly, we have taught them how to be appreciative for the life and perspective we have. We are not particularly religious at home (I mostly keep my practices to myself, as I am loath put any kind of pressure on them in that dimension), except in my making sure to point out where compassion provides great outcomes and ignorance of compassion causes unhappiness both in the small and large. My wife and I have demonstrated generosity to strangers and the teaching has really taken with both the now-teenagers, who are beloved by their peer groups for their kindness, talent, intelligence and humor.

Don Juan (Carlos Castaneda's teacher) says that, in life, what we choose to NOT do is the dominant factor, which I have found to be true, through both experience and written wisdom. As such, the kids have been taught the perils of common negative behaviors, such as: alcohol and other drugs, sexual promiscuity, being belligerent to others, being ignorant of the truth of karma, compassion, and truth.

As Sufis, we do not espouse the superiority of any form of religion, nor do we speak ill of those who have not embraced religion in their lives. The only measure of a person is how they treat others, and we are not to treat them poorly even in that event, though we may have to intervene to prevent harm to innocents. We have not had to do that in our American lives, thankfully, but a study of history has impressed the reality of oppression (and necessity of countervaling compassion) upon them. This included studying the life of Frederick Douglass (we listened to the entire free audiobook for the 900pg 2019 Pulitzer Prize-winning biography together for 5-6hrs/day 5-6days/wk over perhaps three weeks), and we boys have listened to Stephen E. Ambrose's two WWII books, D-Day and Citizen Soldier, multiple times (as my son played chess, and daughter worked on her skills in various crafts, especially sewing full poofy-sleeve dresses and shirts and skirts as well as amigurumi (cultural inheritances of my wife's non-American culture, tho I have crafty Aunts)). They both love the Band of Brothers book and miniseries, and we have together listened to both The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings books in full multiple times, as well as the latter five books of my favorite author William Gibson, whose works are filled with heart and enough rock'n'roll grit to convey that regular people have sex, are sometimes trans, are sometimes gay, and are completely human while being both imperfect yet good people, worthy of respect, no better or worse than us.

All this is to say that we have encouraged their own interests and creativity by providing lots of legos (we have the Unimog!), books, art materials, and shown lots of interesting videos from Uncle Dave (Attenborough) (thanks 2010ish bittorrent documentary sites) as well as Veritasium and lots of NHKOnline (Design Talks Plus, now called Design Stories). We also watch Futbol (soccer) highlights, Sumo (such a different culture), and Judo (for its badassery and fundamental respect). What is important here is that they don't have their own internet-connected devices, but have access to them in our living room, where I live and exist. My son plays online chess and loves his chess club and tournaments. They both have used study.com and Khan Academy for their academic requirements, so they are not without internet access, but only in the service of curiosity and learning and fun, under our loving gaze.

My only hard and fast rule here is that there can be no bickering, and there truly is none, because we respect each other and truly care for each other. The key is that the true value of compassion at home is to take it out into the world every chance we get. They know that we love and serve them, rarely ask them to serve us, and that when we ask them to serve the family (by, for example, my son being in charge of doing the dishes), we do so only because someone needs to do it, and that it's only for the good of the family. Gratefulness is a antidote to our complaining human nature.

All of this (long-winded, I know) is to say that how one serves one's family is the root and trunk of inculcating compassion into one's society because they will take those values/virtues into it, while educating them about the perils of acting on one's vicious (vice-tending, as opposed to virtuous) and selfish tendencies. History and current events, when portrayed in the honest light of virtue/vice evaluation, is an excellent means of educating the entire society, firstly via our two new members. Our daughter's new ability to vote in this coming election is a fruit of our tireless labors.

We have also demonstrated to them a loving husband-wife combination, where we have occasionally argued, and where we rule together by consensus, such is the nature of marriage, where apology and positive self-evolution is required for every person's personal growth and the success of the community, and having a leader who values the opinions of everyone while recommending but not commanding the best course of action is also IMO the best model of society. We should each do the best thing because it's what is best for everyone -- at least we should try, that is.

My wife and I decided to have children to honor the wisdom teachings of universal compassion and service to humanity, to end all suffering and serve the true happiness of everyone, in truth and kindness. We have been very successful, though certainly not perfect and yet also certainly absolutely uncommon in America, or anywhere as far as I can see. This has largely been due to my ability to be a stay-at-home dad of creative bent, not sequestered by myself in some bedroom on a Zoom call or walling myself off. It is kindof a sacrifice, but I've not been very money-oriented in my life, and, though I have been able to earn a good living from being a badass programmer at times early in our marriage, my inability to prioritize money over human beings not only kept me out of the manager-class, but put me in direct confrontation with those souless bastards and their entire intent and modus operandi.

I'll address the rest of your comment in a separate reply. I need a break and this one is loooong-winded already ;-)

Re: The quiet art of attention

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like to watch the movement of my attention I've never really liked the present-tense expression of this idea. If you are watching your attention, is that you directing your attention at your attention? Can you step back again and watch yourself watching yourself watch yourself? Or is it really a past-tense thing where you notice that your attention has drifted?

Try it and you tell me! ;) In answer to your question, it’s hard to explain. But no, I don’t find it possible to step back again and observe that meta process. I just tried. And it is definitely a present-tense action. It may be that it is merely as you say, directing attention to attention, but it doesn’t diminish the free-flow experiential aspect of the exercise, or the intellectual curiosity. Just to flesh out the…

> Try it and you tell me! ;)

I have tried it and for me I can only notice that my attention has drifted after it has drifted. I've never noticed that my brain is currently trying to turn an auditory signal into a meaningful symbol (symbol is probably not the right word). I only notice that I heard a dog bark.

Re: The quiet art of attention

#265
Fantastic writing. I recently did a yoga / meditation retreat (Inner Engineering by Sadhguru) that helps develop this and I find it immensely helpful. I always had trouble knowing how or where to begin, despite reading and knowing so much about the benefits. Inner Engineering gave me structure and insights, and after only practicing it for a week, I have experienced significant changes already.

Re: The quiet art of attention

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm speaking for myself (ADHD) and anecdotal experience from people in my life with these conditions (clinical depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD). I don't claim to speak for anyone. Now you say that. But you made a very clear, absolute statement that these people “cannot have full control of their minds without medical intervention”. And everyone’s lived experience is eventually respected with some back and forth…

As someone with severe, often debilitating ADHD, I understand not wanting to depend on medication. It was forced upon me under threat of punishment as a child and heavily exacerbated my OCD and tic syndrome, which led to further punishment anyway. Learning to be okay with medication has taken a long time. But the last couple decades of research have made a few things clear. Importantly, ADHD has been shown to be a ge…

I will assume that you were not responding to me but just chose my comment as an appropriate enough vantage point.

Re: The quiet art of attention

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do improvized couples dancing, and have experienced time slowing down. It is an unique kind of experience, not just a different conceptualization of an everyday experience. Buddhists say that you are where your attention is. So if a sound captures 100% of my attention, I am that sound. This feels strange on the surface, but when you look deeper into it, it reveals deep wisdom about the human experience. In my under…

Good write-up. IME, you can meditate enough that you can sometimes consciously choose to slow time down to devote more and more attention to something. The key advantage of this is you can jumpstart a flywheel: attention -> unmediated effort -> attention. I say unmediated because your talking mind gets out of the way or helps you (versus never shutting up). I have used this during guitar practice sessions and found t…

I cannot do that. In fact, when I think it is "me" who controls my attention to increase my presence, I immediately lose any presence.

Re: The quiet art of attention

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haven't read that book, but it's not unusual since language is finite.

Language is finite in the same way as our supply of UUIDs is, ie, not finite at all in any practical sense.

attempt to interpret the parent comment more charitably: when different people who've shared a common experience try to put it into words, there is some consistency between what they write. the harder the experience is to verbalize, the harder it is to come up with meaningfully different precise descriptions of it, and the more aware you are of the limitations of language

Re: The quiet art of attention

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try it and you tell me! ;) In answer to your question, it’s hard to explain. But no, I don’t find it possible to step back again and observe that meta process. I just tried. And it is definitely a present-tense action. It may be that it is merely as you say, directing attention to attention, but it doesn’t diminish the free-flow experiential aspect of the exercise, or the intellectual curiosity. Just to flesh out the…

> Try it and you tell me! ;) I have tried it and for me I can only notice that my attention has drifted after it has drifted. I've never noticed that my brain is currently trying to turn an auditory signal into a meaningful symbol ( symbol is probably not the right word). I only notice that I heard a dog bark.

after meditating regularly for a while, doing a noting practice produced a distinct shift for me on this point. I realized that most of the time, when I hear a sound there is also a momentary "shred" of visual/muscular thought that accompanies it. for example, when I hear a crow, there is a bit of black/feathery/tree-branch/etc. if this is interesting, you can find instructions from Shinzen Young online.

typing this up, I realize I'm not totally sure to what extent this is something that was happening before the practice vs something that developed from it [i.e. less habitual energy spent blocking things out], but either way I recommend it :)

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