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Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

theguardian.com

251–260 of 363 posts

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#251

Columbus was famously a devout catholic; his DNA suggests that he was of Sephardic Jewish descent, most likely from a family that underwent a forced conversion.

There are indications he may have been raised Jewish, and later converted to Catholicism. Or, converted but still close to Judaism. His choice to set sail for the New World on August 2, 1492, the exact date ordained for the expulsion of Jews from Spain does suggest he may have not converted yet. Further, It's also known that the family profession was weaving, a traditionally Jewish profession at the time and that Jew…

He set sail August 3rd, not August 2nd.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#252

Why are people so obsessed with the ethnic of a slightly relevant guy from 500 years ago? Is there some relevance in this?

Agreed that his ethnicity is a silly topic to be discussed, but calling Christopher Columbus a "slightly" relevant guy definitely feels like a stretch.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scientists have no right to declare what does and does not exist based on what their machines are able to detect. Did gravity not exist before the LHC was constructed and the Higgs data analyzed? Jewish DNA is that which has descended from Abraham, through Isaac, to Jacob and the Jewish nation. Gravity is an attraction between masses. These things exist – regardless of your machines’ proclivities.

Are you literally saying they all share a single ancestor? Because that is unlikely to be true

Is it? I'd imagine they all share many common ancestors, but that those common ancestors are probably shared by many others as well so it's not very unique.

30 generations back (a thousand years?) you have over a billion ancestors, which is way more people estimated to have lived at the time, meaning your family tree at that depth contains the same people over and over. Of course your ancestry probably isn't uniformly distributed across the globe, but without modeling it mathematically my guess is that if you go back ~3700 years to when Abraham ostensibly lived you can find multiple people that appear in the ancestry of virtually everyone from the Old World.

Anyway intuition can often be poor when dealing with large numbers so if anyone has concrete math or research to share I'd be interested in being proven wrong.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#255
I'm extremely skeptical. A family member studied Columbus's diaries back in grad school and has long suspected he was a Converso, but this is clearly the worst kind of sensationalist journalism.

And we already know for a fact that other members of the expedition were Conversos and they were partially motivated by their desire to get out from under the thumb of the Spanish Crown. Academics have long examined the confluence of the expulsion of Jews and Muslims from Spain and the Columbian Exchange, and Columbus's heritage doesn't really change any of it.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#256

Why are people so obsessed with the ethnic of a slightly relevant guy from 500 years ago? Is there some relevance in this?

Today is Columbus Day / Indigenous Peoples Day.

Oh, that makes sense. Thank you.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#257

Why are people so obsessed with the ethnic of a slightly relevant guy from 500 years ago? Is there some relevance in this?

idk. USA people seem to be the only ones obsessed with him sometimes to a point as treating him as a hero from their history

also people often treat it as the beloved kind of "small person who know better even through everyone told them they where wrong and succeeded by not giving up" story

but the funny thing is the more you learn about him the more you might realize how wrong all of this is

firstly he hadn't had success because he knew better (and people didn't believe him) he had success because he insisted that his absurdly wrong calculations where correct and then had a absurd amount of luck. (In educated circles of that time not only was it well know that earth was a globe, it rough size was also known. The reason he believed he could sail to India was because he insisted that earth was _way_ smaller then it actual is (and also was believed to be in general back then). It's just people (including him!) through there was no additional landmass between the west of Portugal and ~east India. Consider sailing that route on a world where America is just more water... pretty much not viable with the tech of that time).

Secondly if anything he was a villain, to a point even the Spanish Inquisition called him out for his bad behavior against native Americans...

So I agree, no reason to give him any more attention then any of the many other half assed villains which lucked out in human history.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#258

Why are people so obsessed with the ethnic of a slightly relevant guy from 500 years ago? Is there some relevance in this?

idk. USA people seem to be the only ones obsessed with him sometimes to a point as treating him as a hero from their history also people often treat it as the beloved kind of "small person who know better even through everyone told them they where wrong and succeeded by not giving up" story but the funny thing is the more you learn about him the more you might realize how wrong all of this is firstly he hadn't had su…

> it rough size was also known

And it had been known for 1600 years already!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many claims of discovery of the Americas (even by ice age Frenchmen), but the one that had impact was Columbus'.

Pretty sure France wasn't a thing in the ice age

They were people living in what is now called France. Nova did an episode on it.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#260

Why are people so obsessed with the ethnic of a slightly relevant guy from 500 years ago? Is there some relevance in this?

idk. USA people seem to be the only ones obsessed with him sometimes to a point as treating him as a hero from their history also people often treat it as the beloved kind of "small person who know better even through everyone told them they where wrong and succeeded by not giving up" story but the funny thing is the more you learn about him the more you might realize how wrong all of this is firstly he hadn't had su…

He is important because he changed the power dynamics of the old world. And as a result created probably the most powerful country in the world. I'm not American, and not from colonial power country, but it was significant.
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