Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 363 posts

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#31

Post by dumbo-octopus »

profsummergig wrote: post #30

> “The DNA indicates that Christopher Columbus’s origin lay in the western Mediterranean,” said the researcher. “If there weren’t Jews in Genoa in the 15th century, the likelihood that he was from there is minimal. Neither was there a big Jewish presence in the rest of the Italian peninsula, which makes things very tenuous.” Does anyone else think that this is a poorly argued piece? Being Jewish, and having some Jewi…

All of Jesus’s original disciples were Jewish.

And you can be certainly be Jewish without having Jewish DNA, but there’s some controversy as to whether the reverse is true.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#32

Post by p3rls »

fsckboy wrote: post #14

technical who-is-a-Jew type question, which is thoroughly intertwingled with European history: the Jewish diaspora were only the diaspora after they were kicked out of Israel by the Romans (in something like 70AD), and even then, only after they maintained their identity in the diaspora (c.f. the majority of other conquered peoples who did not maintain an independent identity) Before that they were just the Jews, whi…

A little etymological sidenote: Sephardic is just the Hebrew word for Spain, whereas Ashkenaz was one of the great grandsons of Noah associated with eastern and central Europe.

However, when you see a Jew with the last name Ashkenazi, it's safe to assume they're Sephardi. Why? Because last names for Jews are a more recent historical development and these Jews immigrated to Sephardic territory hundreds of years ago (before the expulsion talked about in this thread) and have fully assimilated into the Sephardic tradition.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#33

Post by lolinder »

ywvcbk wrote: post #24
lolinder wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the exact date ordained for the expulsion of Jews from Spain This came up in another part of the thread, but it wasn't the exact date—the decree gave Jews until the end of July [0], while August 3 (not second) is the date he sailed. It's still close enough that it may have been related, but it's not the slam dunk that "the exact date" makes it sound like it is. [0] https://www.fau.edu/artsandletters/pjhr/chhre/pdf/…

Why would anyone ever think that it could have been anything but a coincidence? Who would have sponsored his expedition knowing that Columbus would be legally banned from entering the country if he was successful? That just seems silly…

I think the argument goes that Columbus was a closet Jew who scheduled the expedition with symbolic meaning that only he would know.

It's definitely a Dan Brown plot, but it's not entirely inconceivable.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#35

Post by chipdart »

From the article:

> “Unfortunately, from a scientific point of view, we can’t really evaluate what was in the documentary because they offered no data from the analysis whatsoever,” Antonio Alonso, a geneticist and former director of Spain’s National Institute of Toxicology and Forensic Sciences told El País.

So, baseless speculation used by the Spanish regime to claim Christopher Columbus as Spanish during the Spanish national day?

The funny part is that none of this matters for things other than nationalist talking points.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#39

Post by woodpanel »

> Neither was there a big Jewish presence in the rest of the Italian peninsula

Wait, so the name „ghetto“ wasn’t contrived there?

Snark aside, is there any proof or qualification delivered with that quite important yet ambiguous side node, that there supposedly wasn’t any significant jewish presence in Italy?

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#40

Post by gnabgib »

pimlottc wrote: post #38
gnabgib wrote: post #36

Discussion (50 points, 22 hours ago, 46 conments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41821939

The previous discussion was from before the full tests results were released.

This article is also from before the release of any test results:

  “Normally, you send your article to a scientific journal,” he told El País. “An editor is then assigned to the piece and at least three independent reviewers examine the work and decide whether it’s scientifically valid or not. If it is, it gets published and so the rest of the scientific community can say whether they agree with it or not.
Post reply on HN