Working from home is powering productivity • Hacker News Board

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#451

Post by smcin » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 4:06 AM UTC

bongodongobob wrote: post #137

kortilla wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the city care about number of people in the office if they are deriving the money from commercial property taxes?

Why would the city care if no one is working downtown?

Because then transit, services, restaurants, stores, dry-cleaners, gyms fail, and the taxbase collapses (every city has a different mix of commercial vs residential property tax vs sales-tax).

DowntownRecovery.com project mapped this (using cellphone user data, at least)

https://downtownrecovery.com/

Prior discussion on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=downtownrecovery

Prior discussions: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=downtownrecovery

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#452

Post by anonzzzies » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 5:20 AM UTC

DrBazza wrote: post #307

jandrewrogers wrote: post #260

I think a lot of people are talking past each other. I’ve mostly WFH since long before the pandemic, in many different capacities at many companies. A lot of people have tunnel vision and the reality is more nuanced than most allow. For IC work that requires minimal collaboration, WFH is often more productive. Fewer interruptions, more focus. However, when the role requires detailed collaboration and regular interact…

WFH is best for focused work. Office is best for collaboration. I'm not sure I've found a tool that works for collaboration like a whiteboard. Digital solutions just never really worked in our company and we tried a few. On the flip side, open source projects function just fine with 100% remote work in different time zones. One thing I found with WFH pre-and-post Covid is the the 'Feynman moment'- "If you cannot expl…

Some people collaborate better in person, some don't. I work with people (deliberately) who collaborate better via text chat. We sometimes jump on a call with a screen share, but that is rare. I have tried everything over the past 30+ years and find there are some people who just 'need' the office as they thrive there, but mostly I found that people who insist on office hours and say they are more productive are just really not very good at what they do and compensate for that with an external cabaret of 'work' which really doesn't work at home.

By the way, LLMs really helped us here; we chat with a bot reading and extracting everything and storing it conveniently so it won't get lost for later.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#453

Post by baruch » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 5:32 AM UTC

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #437

vbezhenar wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be efficient to work 60 hours week. Doesn't mean we should agree to it. Remote work improves quality of life. I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost, as long as I have a choice. Companies should adapt and if it means that their efficiency will decrease, so be it.

> I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost, as long as I have a choice. This is a double edged sword. You don’t care about the company, you care for yourself. Your company sees that and gives you a certain treatment. If you don’t care just quit?

Your company already doesn't really care about you (for the vast majority of them at least), so there is a conflict of interest but you personally shouldn't take the side of the company.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#454

Post by tome » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 8:29 AM UTC

alphazard wrote: post #439

sevensor wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange that you’d say that. What I’ve seen is that promoting homegrown ICs to line management is a favored strategy of nontechnical MBAs in upper management. Any large organization is bureaucratic. Given the intensely bureaucratic record of communist governments, your invocation of Marxist rhetoric here is frankly laughable. What promoting inexperienced managers from within does is place them at a tremendous informa…

> he used the word "class", let me find Marxism in my dialogue tree. If you were unaware of the term "bureaucratic class", it's not a pro-marxist shibboleth. It refers to the population of aging white collar workers without useful skills, usually in management positions. They can be found parasitizing most large companies. If their incompetence could be reliably detected, it would trigger a massive unemployment crisi…

Interesting. How do you distinguish that notion from the notion of the "bourgeoisie"?

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#455

Post by rad_gruchalski » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 9:46 AM UTC

baruch wrote: post #453

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost, as long as I have a choice. This is a double edged sword. You don’t care about the company, you care for yourself. Your company sees that and gives you a certain treatment. If you don’t care just quit?

Your company already doesn't really care about you (for the vast majority of them at least), so there is a conflict of interest but you personally shouldn't take the side of the company.

There’s an element to that, for sure. But can it be generalised to a whole planet? I’m certain you have met people on your way who genuinely rooted for you. Companies are made out of people.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#456

Post by intelVISA » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:09 AM UTC

noch wrote: post #383

benterix wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. No, actually I haven't. I just have many colleagues who share their feelings with me. In my niche, all best-paid positions are remote only, I basically cooperate with teams from different continents, it's very rewarding. If someone tried to offer me a job forcing me to sit in an open plan office, I would laugh in their face, it seems so ridiculously absurd and unnecessary. The…

> No, actually I haven't. Ah. Well, second hand anecdotes are certainly appreciated. Thanks for sharing. > The possibility of WFH (for those who want it) is one of the best that happened to the working class since 5-day workweek. Does "working class" have a different meaning today? When I entered the job market it meant "blue collar" or manual labourer. You seem to be indicating that you're what used to be called "kn…

> Does "working class" have a different meaning today? When I entered the job market it meant "blue collar" or manual labourer. You seem to be indicating that you're what used to be called "knowledge worker"?

If you stopped "working" tomorrow and had no means to generate income e.g. from ownership of capital you're working class.

So if you make bread, car wheels or SaaS for a living it doesn't matter, only whether you own the output and can sell it. Social class is a distraction from this economic reality.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#457

Post by intelVISA » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 10:25 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #330

noch wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies with wfh are driven out of business by those without This is unlikely. Notice the parent post said: >> I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost […] So you have a situation where: - Most of your employees think of your company's success and their lifestyle as competing interests. - Most of your employees are focused on optimizing their lifestyle rather…

Why would you prioritize company success in a world where the company has zero loyalty to you ? You trade off your lifestyle in return for no equity and get made redundant at zero notice? Why would you do that? > Most of your employees think of your company's success and their lifestyle as competing interests. There are only so many hours in the day.

I get where they're coming from as excellence does require grinding - the idea of a 3 week bootcamp into mastery (of anything) is a pure sales pitch; on the flip side the grind's a means to an end, usually, and I am doubtful that goal is "become indentured to a company" when they've just built up the skills to found one.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#458

Post by benterix » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 11:10 AM UTC

noch wrote: post #432

benterix wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a business owner however, the question is: what is best for the business? It is very simple: you need best people. In tech industry, people are smart, they know how to optimize things, and they rarely believe in "company values" bullshit. You can choose from a limited talent pool. If you give yourself and them a choice, including the WFH option, you statistically increase your chances of finding the best people.…

> It is very simple: you need best people Would that it were so simple! But are you saying this from your experience hiring for teams that execute well? > you statistically increase your chances of finding the best people Do you have statistics proving this? Please share data. > they rarely believe in "company values" bullshit Are you honestly saying that in all the interviews you've attended, you never ask and you'v…

> Would that it were so simple! But are you saying this from your experience hiring for teams that execute well?

I oversimplified it not to stray away from the main topic but actually they need to have very specific features like the willingness to collaborate, the ability to communicate when the time is right, being technically proficient and so on.

> Do you have statistics proving this? Please share data.

Let A be the set of people who like to work remotely and B the set of people who love to do hybrid. (I leave out the set of people who love full RTO because I haven't yet met such a person, even hard-core office lovers admit a day of remote work is doing wonders to them.) Let A1 be the subset of people who would be fit for the job from the set A, and B1 be the subset of people who would be fit for the job from the set B. From the basic properties of real numbers one can infer that A1 + B1 is at least equal to B1.

> Are you honestly saying that in all the interviews you've attended, you never ask and you've never been asked "why do you want to work here?" And if the question was asked the answer had nothing to do with the company's mission?

Actually, they rarely ask it these days. Maybe the hiring folks are tired of this meaningless ritual? I once said I applied by mistake and they still wanted to hire me (I declined the offer as it was a different time zone, I realized this too far in the recruitment process and was quite embarrassed by mistake.)

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#459

Post by alphazard » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 1:39 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #454

alphazard wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he used the word "class", let me find Marxism in my dialogue tree. If you were unaware of the term "bureaucratic class", it's not a pro-marxist shibboleth. It refers to the population of aging white collar workers without useful skills, usually in management positions. They can be found parasitizing most large companies. If their incompetence could be reliably detected, it would trigger a massive unemployment crisi…

Interesting. How do you distinguish that notion from the notion of the "bourgeoisie"?

"bourgeoisie" refers to the capitalist class. Made more rigorous, we can say the set of people who do not need employment to pay their bills, they can live off of investment income. They often still perform labor, but as a part of their own businesses.

The bureaucratic class depend heavily on employment income. They are very lucky to have their jobs, and could be easily replaced or eliminated. They are desperate to maintain the structure of the bureaucracy in which they thrive. They create a cost born by both the "working class" and the "capitalist class". They consume the resources of the capitalist class, and mis-allocate the labor of the working class. If the investors and employees could coordinate without them, more value would be created for the capitalist and more wages could be kept by the worker.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#460

Post by scott_w » Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 4:01 PM UTC

noch wrote: post #383

benterix wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. No, actually I haven't. I just have many colleagues who share their feelings with me. In my niche, all best-paid positions are remote only, I basically cooperate with teams from different continents, it's very rewarding. If someone tried to offer me a job forcing me to sit in an open plan office, I would laugh in their face, it seems so ridiculously absurd and unnecessary. The…

> No, actually I haven't. Ah. Well, second hand anecdotes are certainly appreciated. Thanks for sharing. > The possibility of WFH (for those who want it) is one of the best that happened to the working class since 5-day workweek. Does "working class" have a different meaning today? When I entered the job market it meant "blue collar" or manual labourer. You seem to be indicating that you're what used to be called "kn…

> Does "working class" have a different meaning today?

It’s always had multiple meanings depending on context. Working vs capital class, wealth/income-based, job-based.

Being British, class here is tied strongly to your birth. My dad rents out multiple properties, I earn a good living as a software engineer. However we’re both working class because we were born working class. No amount of money can buy our way into the upper echelons of society because our accent will shut those doors.