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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

381–390 of 910 posts

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars destroy walkability, cyclability, ability for kids to freely play outside, enable sprawl (hence more energy consumption hence more carbon emissions). There’s no free lunch with using more surface area, which cars greatly expand people’s ability to consume.

True to a degree but cars also make parenting easier: you get bigger houses, bigger backyards, don't have lug your kids around on public transit, deal with the weather, don't need to worry about rail worker strikes, etc. All America's missing is laws that allow kids to walk to school and adding more sidewalks to enable this, but this is changing over time (see Utah's free range parenting law).

And yet I frequently see (in New Zealand), properties with oversized double garages (often built to fit oversized American vehicles) and driveways that take up half the land on the property. Cars use a huge amount of space in roads, carparks, garages, and are responsible for pushing things further and further away from the home. And then somehow cars are seen as the solution for the very problems they create. There's plenty of real world evidence that there are better ways to solve this.

I don't think cars are responsible for bigger backyards at all. The size of the average property where I live only seems to be shrinking as the roads get more and more congested.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn I suspect the key is to find ways to run railways cheaper. It has been a long time since railways were under severe cost competition encouraging people to look for efficiencies. I think the main one would be to find a way for railways to operate with no staff. Just like a typical road operates most of the time with no staff. That means you need to redesign everything that c…

I doubt that moves the needle a lot unless you're making _everything_ fully automatic, i.e. including the infrastructure creation & maintenance and streamline that extremely well. If you take a ride from Hamburg to Berlin with the ICE, there's maybe 8 staff on board, 200-300 passengers, it takes ~2 hours and the average ticket price is 77€ according to some travel app. Even if you get rid of all 8 of them, the price…

Why would there be 8 staff on board? Isn't there typically one train driver and one attendant?

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#383
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years of all major parties supporting hs2 and it couldn’t be rammed through Want to improve things for people in the UK, ram through massive new housing akin to the newtowns of 50 years ago.

HS2 was an ongoing project, it was threw. It was simply cancled by a fucking asshat person who tried to appeal to the far right in a series of stunts to save his sorry ass. New housing has to be built along transportation corridors. If you want to efficiently build housing, you have to extend transportation infrastructure into areas and then grow towns around that. This isn't actually hard and has been done for 100 y…

HS2 spent years and billions trying to keep the moaners in the chilterns happy. The number of tunnels is insane.

The M40 didn’t have this problem.

Yes transportation goes without saying. Places like Telford and Milton Keynes and the likes. There are tons of places on the WCML that could have MK style communities.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We spend public money on things that are almost impossible to put a concrete value on all the time. Parks. NASA. University subsidies. Animal welfare. The list goes on. "How much are we willing to pay" is entirely subjective and can't be produced by a nice clean spreadsheet.

If you could make a park for 5 million dollars, or the same park for 3 million, you would do the latter, would you not? Then you'd have 2 million left to do something else with. Because that is the comparison being drawn here. A valid objection would be that there are other axes that are material but are not being considered when we reduce the question to dollars per ton of CO2 -- but arguing that we ought not even t…

This analogy simply doesn't work because transit isn't fungible. Trains and air travel or cars simply aren't "the same park". The benefit of trains is objectively not just the carbon footprint. The money spent by the government benefits the public in other ways, not just environmentally. Ignoring the wear on (and cost of ownership of) personal vehicles, for instance, dismisses a huge amount of savings for folks who can take trains instead. Rail travel is safer and results in fewer deaths. The list goes on. Even "having a train that takes me to work so I can relax on my commute" is an important one. And many of those things are almost impossible to truly quantify the monetary value of and jam into a spreadsheet.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's true in small, peaceful countries like Denmark, but in the US children "excersising some independence" would likely be kidnapped, raped or killed.

This has never been significantly true, and becomes less true every year. The probability that any given child will be kidnapped or otherwise threatened by a stranger is minuscule compared to the chance that they will be abused, kidnapped, or killed by a family member.

People don't like to think about this harsh reality. Stranger danger is much easier for them to accept.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#386
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, on mobile they make you think you need the app, but it's region locked. I happened to email them about how this is annoying for tourists yesterday and got a very German response, "Downloading the Deutschlandticket.de app from the Google Play Store and Apple App Store is only possible in certain countries." (ikr, it's THE problem)

Is a response repeating the thing you just concluded in your mail to them very german?

A factual, but entirely unhelpful response to a customer service query is very German.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focusing on the cost-per-tonne for carbon reduction misses the broader value of railways. They're not just about reducing emission! They facilitate daily commutes, expand job opportunities, and help drive the economy. It’s a subsidy for businesses too.

Gp said they know about these other factors but doesn't know how to price them. Do you know a way?

Road building and maintenance avoided?

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't think of it as a subsidy because they are not charged per use a la toll road.

People also pay fuel tax, registration tax, and other taxes that fund the roads

At least in the US, those taxes are nowhere near enough to pay for maintenance, let alone new construction. The rest is a straight subsidy from the general fund, typically paid for by passing the debt to our children.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#389

The reason nobody uses public transit in America is it's always packed with transients or dangerous people. I took public transit all the time living in Melbourne since it was clean and silent nearly 98% of the time. Same in the Netherlands.

That is pure BS. At least as some general sweeping statement.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The far-right Berlin government is currently doing its darnedest to build the most expensive highway in all of Germany, that nobody actually wants, through a cultural area. Probably because their friend owns the highway construction company.

I don't see how any government, regardless of location, that spends large sums of taxpayer money on a construction project could ever be considered to be "right wing" in any way, let alone "far-right". Such behaviour fundamentally contradicts even the mildest of right-of-centre ideologies. An actual right-of-centre government would never even consider starting such a project. If a right-of-centre government happened…

Unfortunately right wing parties throughout the West have been taken over by grifters, and anything like traditional conservatism has been tossed by the wayside.
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