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Working from home is powering productivity

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Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#421

Post by noch »

pjc50 wrote: post #395
noch wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, actually I haven't. Ah. Well, second hand anecdotes are certainly appreciated. Thanks for sharing. > The possibility of WFH (for those who want it) is one of the best that happened to the working class since 5-day workweek. Does "working class" have a different meaning today? When I entered the job market it meant "blue collar" or manual labourer. You seem to be indicating that you're what used to be called "kn…

Anyone who is dependent on labour rather than capital for their income is technically working class. The Marxist classifications don't really work for knowledge workers or professionals.

> The Marxist classifications don't really work for knowledge workers or professionals.

I see. Thanks for that clarification. Most of the people I've worked with earn money by running fleets of servers and software that do the work that generates income. It feels weird calling them "working class."

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#422

Post by noch »

_gabe_ wrote: post #386
noch wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies with wfh are driven out of business by those without This is unlikely. Notice the parent post said: >> I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost […] So you have a situation where: - Most of your employees think of your company's success and their lifestyle as competing interests. - Most of your employees are focused on optimizing their lifestyle rather…

> Essentially these are people who don't actually want to work and would be just as happy or happier on UBI. As one of “these people”, I enjoy my job, but I can recognize the fact that it’s just a job . I’m amazed that you would classify people that don’t center their whole life around their job as people that would be just as happy without a job. I have a lot of other hobbies. I definitely would not be happier if yo…

> I enjoy my job, but I can recognize the fact that it’s just a job.

There's an old saying that "you become what you do". It's fine if your employment is "just a job" for you and you have hobbies you prefer.

But don't be amazed that there are people who define themselves by their careers as much as others define themselves by their hobbies. That's who you're competing with.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#423

Post by ajuc »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #413
ajuc wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately this can be a race to the bottom This works as an argument against 8h work day and 5-day work week too. Ultimately if something is better for the society (and WFH obviously is - commute time, carbon footprint, land prices, housing crisis - it helps with almost everything) - we should just force companies to use it by regulation, so that there's no "race" in that regard cause the conditions are the sam…

And many high performing companies famously expect employees to work more than 8h/day and/or weekends.

Some people steal, does not mean stealing is fine or that we shouldn't ban it.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#424

Post by rescbr »

ajuc wrote: post #406
abustamam wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that WFH is better for society, but anecdotally, it probably caused more of a housing crisis here in CA. Folks took their bay area salaries and moved to cheaper suburbs and totally wrecked the RE market. And I have read stories of similar things happening in other places that techies flocked to, like Austin, though I don't think it's necessarily fair to blame that on remote work because there were other facto…

> Folks took their bay area salaries and moved to cheaper suburbs and totally wrecked the RE market. Isn't that what we want? Land prices averaging out? Then we can build where it's cheaper so more people have homes (with access to good jobs). It probably won't be limited to suburbs, if you can WFH from the same state - you can WFH from another state.

Land prices averaged up, but local salaries aren’t doing the same.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#425

Post by criddell »

ozim wrote: post #57
criddell wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think framing the WFH argument in terms of productivity is a bad idea. It’s difficult to win that argument and it might not even be true. Instead, call it a benefit, like paid vacation or health insurance. Nobody argues that employers contributing to an employees 401(k) plan is good for productivity. They do it to attract and retain talent.

Benefit for the employee can be cut off any time. Benefit for the company will go on forever. I will stay on the ground where WFH is benefit for the company. That is what I believe and I want everyone to believe and I do not care what any kind of research will say. Just if employees will force it in that way it will be.

> Benefit for the company will go on forever.

I'm not sure about that. Companies are still made of people and people aren't always rational or even good at their jobs. Managers might prefer butts in seats because it's easier for them. Or maybe they fall for the sunk cost fallacy and want people in the office because the office space is expensive.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#426

Post by newswasboring »

strken wrote: post #355
newswasboring wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is my understanding that IC is individual contributor. So basically devs who are making their own parts of the code.

IC is usually meant in contrast to manager, meaning ICs are the engineers without anyone reporting to them. The difference between "not a manager" and "working on their own part of the code" is important when you're talking about positions with a lot of seniority like staff or principal engineers, because those ICs are still expected to work on massive projects involving a lot of cat-herding and leadership that touch…

Yup, you said it better than me.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#427

Post by albedoa »

itohihiyt wrote: post #288
albedoa wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If it's silly and pedantic to assume we're talking about the thing plainly stated in both the title and body of the article, then yes I am. Now if you're actual stance is that when someone says WFH you include all remote work then we are clearly talking about two different things. In which case it should be plainly stated. As it stands it just seems to me you were moving the goalposts. For clarity WFH when I say it m…

[flagged]

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#428

Post by jandrewrogers »

J_Shelby_J wrote: post #276
jandrewrogers wrote: post #260

I think a lot of people are talking past each other. I’ve mostly WFH since long before the pandemic, in many different capacities at many companies. A lot of people have tunnel vision and the reality is more nuanced than most allow. For IC work that requires minimal collaboration, WFH is often more productive. Fewer interruptions, more focus. However, when the role requires detailed collaboration and regular interact…

This is a good comment and I had to think about it for a minute. I do agree with you in practicality, but I also think in person works because most people flat out can’t or won’t take the time to communicate effectively in writing. Put them in a room and they’re suddenly forced to do it. But that said, just because most people can’t effectively communicate and instead use async communications like slack zombies is no…

Most people struggle to be efficient and effective at written communication. There are a huge number of people with good technical skills whose writing skills don't go much beyond writing a string of one-liners on Slack. And particularly in the younger generations, there is an enormous amount of resistance to anything that looks like detail-oriented long-form writing. In-person interactive discussion is much easier for people without these skills.

It takes years of practice to become proficient at this, even if English is your native language. Everyone wants full-time remote but few people possess the communication skills to effectively work asynchronously and I see very few people intentionally trying to develop these skills or being willing to put in the many hours of work required.

This may be the primary essential gap for remote: people need to dramatically improve their written communication skills. Until they do, they lack the skills to work remotely effectively.

Ironically, we used to do asynchronous highly technical long-form discussions over email and on mailing lists. It is where I developed a lot of my writing skills, and this used to be the norm. It worked pretty well and some older open source projects still work this way. Now everyone hates email because it forces them to write.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#429

Post by vbezhenar »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #328
vbezhenar wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be efficient to work 60 hours week. Doesn't mean we should agree to it. Remote work improves quality of life. I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost, as long as I have a choice. Companies should adapt and if it means that their efficiency will decrease, so be it.

It sounds like you're advocating for a legally protected right to WFH. Are you?

I'm just expressing my opinion with regards to WFH. I work from home currently and it significantly changed by life to the better. Whether WFH should be legally protected, I don't know. I, personally, would be all for it, but at the same time I might underestimate some factors.

Probably it makes sense to start with disabled people. There are not a lot of them, so potential negatives wouldn't hurt society that much and helping disabled people generally is well received. So basically if disabled person want to work in a job that could be done remotely and qualified for it, you must allow remote work, or something like that. Then you can follow with people caring for kids or disabled elders, they often must be at home, but at the same time they might have enough time to allow for some work. With enough statistics smart people could make an informed decision, whether forcing WFH worth it or not.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#430

Post by benterix »

LaserToy wrote: post #398
benterix wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. No, actually I haven't. I just have many colleagues who share their feelings with me. In my niche, all best-paid positions are remote only, I basically cooperate with teams from different continents, it's very rewarding. If someone tried to offer me a job forcing me to sit in an open plan office, I would laugh in their face, it seems so ridiculously absurd and unnecessary. The…

How much are you paid? Total comp?

I'm reluctant to provide details as these days you can be doxxed by just one's writing style but I manage to save 85% of my salary and rent a private 50sqm office with all amenities just for myself.
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