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The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

pgbovine.net

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Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#41
post #18

"He was an ardent pragmatist who cared more about achieving compelling results than demonstrating theoretical 'interestingness'..." Are those people actually rare in academia?

I worked in academic research for 6 years (in AI/systems engineering) and I never encountered anyone who was succesful and interested in pragmatic issues.

On reflection, this is perhaps a bit harsh to some of the very bright people I used to work with.

What I meant was that in the context of a highly competitive research environment those who were succesful had learned that to succeed they couldn't afford to focus on anything that wouldn't progress their own careers - and that meant (and presumably still means) publications in the rights places which are usually completely uninterested in practical details and focused more on pure mathematical/conceptual concepts.

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#42
This is great, and thanks for writing it up. I don't think many graduate students would consider doing this right after graduation...I certainly wasn't in a mood to write another detailed document after getting done with my dissertation (also a couple of months ago, and in computer science).

I wanted to add a little about the end-game. For me, the decision of what to do next followed a slightly different path. In the fall of my 5th year, while planning to graduate, I had to really think about what to do next. Academia sounded interesting, so I went ahead and applied to tenure track jobs, and did interviews. Come winter, I had an offer from an Ivy League school. But I had also wanted to do startups for a while.

From my experience, working on projects that were not provided/sanctioned by advisors was somewhat like working on a startup. You have to build things that others find useful/interesting, sell the crap out of it in publications, presentations etc, and I also had to fund it.(my research was building systems software that improves user experience in poor network environments, like those common in developing regions. One of the definite perks was travelling lots and deploying stuff I built.)

In other words, I have no idea why most PhDs are not be expected to go work on a startup when they finish. They are domain experts, and are expected to be good communicators when it is all said and done.

So, when it came time to make the call---an assistant professor, or a startup founder---I chose the later (and disappointed my advisor). Some friends tell me I could have done that without a PhD, and it was a waste of time. I think a PhD naturally leads to a start up. The Grind, as the op calls it, is something that teaches you a lot about yourself, and surrounds you with some of the smartest people you'll find. Your job, every single day, is to innovate [with a more flexible runway]...and you can make (and learn) a lot out of it.

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#43

As a current graduate student skeptically considering working toward a Ph.D., this has helped me confirm my suspicion that it's not for me. I started doing research as an undergrad, so I have become somewhat familiar with academia's publication game... and I find it distasteful. Knowing what goes into a Ph.D. is invaluable in making such a decision, and this book was quite helpful in that regard. Thank you!

I urge you to reconsider.

What do you want to do when you "grow up"? If you are hanging out on HN, I assume you have some interest in start ups...read my other comment. And I can give you a lot more reasons why you should continue [especially if you are at one of the better institutions].

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#44
post #18

"He was an ardent pragmatist who cared more about achieving compelling results than demonstrating theoretical 'interestingness'..." Are those people actually rare in academia?

Not at all, especially in systems.

But it helps to be pragmatic and interesting, even in systems. mobisys and mobicom is full of stuff that is more interesting than pragmatic.

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#45
I must confess, while the grad school parts resonated for me, the part that was most engaging was the vein of applied provenance tools.

Having recently left my program (but enjoying research), I've actually been spending a huge amount of time planning out and slowly executing building a better tool chain for data analysis, and one of the really exciting details that has popped out of my design is a very nIce support for incremental computation and computational provenance, while having all of the constituent parts be libraries (rather than needing to mod a run time)

Point being I was really intrigued to see the thinking behind other folks getting drawn into that space

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#46
post #43

As a current graduate student skeptically considering working toward a Ph.D., this has helped me confirm my suspicion that it's not for me. I started doing research as an undergrad, so I have become somewhat familiar with academia's publication game... and I find it distasteful. Knowing what goes into a Ph.D. is invaluable in making such a decision, and this book was quite helpful in that regard. Thank you!

I urge you to reconsider. What do you want to do when you "grow up"? If you are hanging out on HN, I assume you have some interest in start ups...read my other comment. And I can give you a lot more reasons why you should continue [especially if you are at one of the better institutions].

There are also many reasons why you should not. (Speaking as someone who left her PhD two years in to do a startup.)

The best thing to do if you are facing the option of a PhD and also interested in other paths (startup, bigco, etc) is to fully understand what the PhD will do for you and what it is like. Including the impact it might have on your mental health, career, and ability to do a startup later. Reading essays like pgbovine's are a great way to fully understand this decision.

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, you MIT guys all know each other :) While you are at google, you might consider continuing to engage with the academic community to a limited extent. Onward! is very different with a new/improved community that is interested in bridging gaps between PL/HCI/systems and isn't so concerned about the publishing rat race.

actually i don't know wilson, but he went to grad school with my advisor, so i figure i should ping him! re: Onward! yes, i've heard good things about it; will keep a look-out.

I expect that Wilson will enjoy your writeup, definitely forward it to him. He's a Googler you should get to know anyway...

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#48
post #46
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I urge you to reconsider. What do you want to do when you "grow up"? If you are hanging out on HN, I assume you have some interest in start ups...read my other comment. And I can give you a lot more reasons why you should continue [especially if you are at one of the better institutions].

There are also many reasons why you should not. (Speaking as someone who left her PhD two years in to do a startup.) The best thing to do if you are facing the option of a PhD and also interested in other paths (startup, bigco, etc) is to fully understand what the PhD will do for you and what it is like. Including the impact it might have on your mental health, career, and ability to do a startup later. Reading essay…

I agree with trying to understand your options to the fullest...except the casual mention of mental health issues. Most PhDs I know are still sane :)

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#49
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually i don't know wilson, but he went to grad school with my advisor, so i figure i should ping him! re: Onward! yes, i've heard good things about it; will keep a look-out.

I expect that Wilson will enjoy your writeup, definitely forward it to him. He's a Googler you should get to know anyway...

ha you're another person i meant to email today ... i should get on that soon!

Re: The Ph.D Grind: A Ph.D Student Memoir

#50

As a current graduate student skeptically considering working toward a Ph.D., this has helped me confirm my suspicion that it's not for me. I started doing research as an undergrad, so I have become somewhat familiar with academia's publication game... and I find it distasteful. Knowing what goes into a Ph.D. is invaluable in making such a decision, and this book was quite helpful in that regard. Thank you!

i have a big fat disclaimer in the preface that this isn't meant to be anything other than me telling my own story; it's one data point, and there's a huge amount of variation in Ph.D. student experiences.

maybe i didn't make the disclaimer big enough, though :)

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