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California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

techcrunch.com

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Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#41

Post by starfezzy »

stavros wrote: post #31
starfezzy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the complaints were applicable to other EVs, or else a problem of poor planning rather than a problem of Teslas specifically. For example, choosing the small model then complaining that it’s small, or failing to install chargers in their lot then complaining they don’t have chargers in their lot. They mentioned that other brands weren’t even an option to due to various reasons, so it’s weird that they framed i…

> All of the complaints were applicable to other EVs Out of the ten or so complaints I read, only two were applicable to other EVs (can't do long range, which it sounds like they only needed once), and no engine block to hide behind (surely they can just install additional armor on that part of the car). The rest is Tesla being unfit for being a police car, which, yes, it is, why are you buying something you know doe…

All of these are true of other brands—most so much so that, as the article points out, they weren’t even on the table as options.

1. Limited space: - Back seats only have room for one prisoner - Officers can't comfortably get in and out with duty belts on - Cramped cabin causes duty belts and vests to jut into passenger seat

2. Modification issues: - Few shops can modify Teslas for police use - Long wait times for modifications (months) - Modifications exacerbate space constraints

3. Charging infrastructure concerns: - Unclear how/where officers would charge vehicles - Potential security issues with charging suspects' transport vehicles at public stations

4. Safety concerns: - No engine block to use as cover in firefights - Low profile limits off-road use and maneuverability

5. "Smart" features interfering with police work: - Autopilot causing delays when shifting into drive - Automatic stopping when pulling over - Complicated process to dim lights at night - Issues with proximity locking, sleep mode, and self-closing doors

6. Maintenance challenges: - Require Tesla technicians for many repairs - Long out-of-service times for repairs

7. Cost issues: - Expensive to transport for modifications - Limited vendor options for outfitting increases costs

8. Not designed for police utility needs: - Lack of storage space for equipment - No easy way to transport items like bicycles and shopping carts

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#42

Post by BLKNSLVR »

Wow, this is a shallow article. The timing of it feels like attempting to offset yesterday's event.

None of the reasons they list are applicable to real world users.

How far are they transporting suspects for range to be a problem? Sounds like a use-case mismatch to me.

I don't think I'm a Tesla fanboy / apologist. Elon is a nut job for supporting Trump and various other conspiracy-theory level outbursts.

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#43

Post by SebFender »

Makes me think about new towing trucks our cities have been getting up here in canada - they are all proud of buying electric models... Let me tell you : when it's -20 degrees in winter - the last thing you want having troubles are towing trucks. I get the strategy - but as always what about the operational challenges?

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#44

Post by bstsb »

Angostura wrote: post #18
bstsb wrote: post #10

this seems like they haven't done their research at all - i find it surprising that they even thought a Model 3 would be a good police vehicle considering its dimensions. perhaps a better alternative is picking one of the many other EVs that are based on a ICE framework, which i presume would be much easier to modify as required?

The article says they are using Model Ys

oops, could have sworn it said Model 3s - might have been the other article linked

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#45

Post by cr125rider »

lazide wrote: post #14
gridspy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a disconnect here between the decision makers and the experts in the Police Garage.

Classic gov’t/big Corp purchasing.

And extra in CA where lip service far outweighs thoughtful policy.

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#46

Post by giardini »

mglz wrote: post #9

> say a reliance on unsecured charging stations makes officers vulnerable when it comes to transporting suspects long distances; and note that in a firefight, police are taught to hide behind a car’s engine block I am a diehard EV proponent, but it's important to admit that there are places where EVs are not the right solution. Especially in vehicles which take part in emergency response, the high energy density of f…

>"... in a firefight, police are taught to hide behind a car’s engine block"

So the cop should possibly orient himself so that his/her head, heart and lungs [and maybe even his/her nuts, if (s)he has 'em] are protected by the engine block ? Good luck with that!

Most cops are larger than most engine blocks. Hiding behind an auto engine block is almost certainly a "Hail Mary" move in a firefight. If you do the math (and compute protection vs officer orientation relative to the shooter(s) and to the engine block) better strategies are to:

- hide - seek concealment, leave if possible,

- run - move away from shooter(s),

- if you are legally required to stay and have a weapon and if you can shoot it well, provide covering fire (to keep the shooter down).

Whilst moving away won't provide protection from a stray bullet, our 3-d world's geometry reduces very rapidly the odds of being hit as you move away from a shooter. The instinctual urges to flee and/or "hit the deck" (lie flat, play dead, etc. until you can see where to flee) are useful.

This is boosted by the fact that most people, cops and otherwise, cannot shoot a firearm (esp. a handgun) accurately. If you have the bad luck to be in a shootout with a marksman who can keep his cool under fire, then you're likely SOL. But the above advice (hide and run) remains valid.

Summary: the presence of an engine block for protection is not a convincing argument against the use of EVs for law enforcement.

I like this:

https://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Being-Shot

and this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/hu4srd/whats_the...

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#48

Post by wakawaka28 »

giardini wrote: post #46
mglz wrote: post #9

> say a reliance on unsecured charging stations makes officers vulnerable when it comes to transporting suspects long distances; and note that in a firefight, police are taught to hide behind a car’s engine block I am a diehard EV proponent, but it's important to admit that there are places where EVs are not the right solution. Especially in vehicles which take part in emergency response, the high energy density of f…

>"... in a firefight, police are taught to hide behind a car’s engine block" So the cop should possibly orient himself so that his/her head, heart and lungs [and maybe even his/her nuts, if (s)he has 'em] are protected by the engine block ? Good luck with that! Most cops are larger than most engine blocks. Hiding behind an auto engine block is almost certainly a "Hail Mary" move in a firefight. If you do the math (an…

These are police officers. They aren't supposed to run away from gun fights as a first option. They need to at least try to engage and shut down the threat.

>hide - seek concealment, leave if possible

That is exactly what the engine block thing is for. It is a last resort but the alternative is to likely get shot through the vehicle or get shot in the back running away from your actual job.

Not to mention, an EV can get shot in the battery leading to a huge fire, possibly incinerating anyone locked in the back seat of the car. EV fires are often sudden and often accompanied by explosions, whereas petrol-fueled cars are very difficult to ignite in a gunfight (contrary to the ridiculous explosions that Hollywood shows).

Summary: You don't have a clue what you are talking about. The cops, many of whom are combat veterans on top of their police training, DO understand the threats.

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#49

Post by wakawaka28 »

whoitwas wrote: post #35
fragmede wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a much better link. the F150 Lightning has much more going for it as a police EV.

Why? I'm very ignorant of the market. Can these vehicles run for 8 - 12 hours consecutively? The maintenance costs must be absurd. I wonder how often the tires must be swapped with this amount of constant wear and tear?

The answer is no, there isn't an EV on the market suitable to be a police vehicle, much less competitive with petrol vehicles. It barely makes sense for even 25% of the population to use EVs, even in ideal conditions with home charging and subsidies, and not accounting for potential extreme weather and evacuations.

Re: California police aren't loving their Tesla cop cars

#50

Post by wakawaka28 »

sshine wrote: post #38

In Copenhagen, taxis have taxi-only EV chargers provided by the taxi companies. The police have not yet ventured towards EVs, but as part of doing that, they must build the charger infrastructure to guarantee reliable charging of their fleet. Allocating grid for fast charging in a densely populated area isn’t easy. Battery-powered chargers aren’t that common, and building noiseless ones is difficult. The commercial i…

>Battery-powered chargers aren’t that common, and building noiseless ones is difficult.

Noiseless ones means ones that don't use huge diesel generators to meet demand, I assume. You may as well put that fuel into a conventional vehicle if you have to do all that. It's surely more efficient than building like 3x as much stuff just to ultimately burn the same energy.

>The commercial infrastructure for fast charging is just not good enough yet. Emergency fast chargers need better geographical distribution.

I think it will never make sense. If fast service is required it will have to come down to battery exchanges, or else exchanging whole cars.

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