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Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

darioamodei.com

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Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#91

Post by roenxi »

KaiserPro wrote: post #89
roenxi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI will be used to make things cheaper. That is, lots of job losses. must of us are up for the chop if/when competent AI agents become possible. > But those profits will not be shared. Human productivity has exploded in the last 120 years, yet we are working longer hours for less pay. Don't you have to pick one? It seems a bit disjointed to simultaneously complain that we are all losing our jobs and that we are wor…

I did not argue that cogently. At each "node" of the industrial revolution, lots of workers were displaced. (weavers, scriveners, printers, car mechanics). Those workers were highly paid because they were highly skilled. Productivity made things cheaper to make, because it removed the expensive labour required to make it. That means less well paid jobs with controlled hours. This leads to poorly paid jobs with high c…

> who is going to pay for them? not the people who are making the profits.

They kinda have to. If I'm so productive at producing food that I grow enough for 2,000 people, I have to find 2,000 people to feed. Or the land sits fallow and I get nothing at all. There is a lot of wiggle room at the margins, but overall it is hard to get away with producing more stuff and warehousing it.

We'd expect to see a bunch of silly jobs where people are peeling grapes and cooling the wealthy with fronds; but the capitalists can't hoard the wealth because they can't really do anything with it.

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#92

Post by CaptainFever »

bamboozled wrote: post #16
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #8

Social media could have transformed the world for the better, and we can be forgiven for not having foreseen how it would eventually be used against us. It would be stupidity to fall for the same thing again.

I’m sure social media is what’s broken politics. Look at peoples comments on a some YouTube video. I can’t believe what people believe and perpetuate. I guess people fell for other people’s garbage too but algorithms just make lies spread with a lot less effort and honest people are less inclined to participate in this behaviour.

Having used Mastodon, which prides itself on having no algorithms yet is also home to some of the most extreme ideologies, I doubt algorithms are as much to blame. I think it's mainly a humanity issue.

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#93

Post by thrance »

ManuelKiessling wrote: post #46
KaiserPro wrote: post #4

One of the sad things about tech is that nobody really looks at history. The same kinds of essays were written about trains, planes and nuclear power. Before lindbergh went off the deepend, he was convinced that "airmen" were gentlemen and could sort out the world's ills. The essay contains a lot of coulds, but doesn't touch on the base problem: human nature. AI will be used to make things cheaper. That is, lots of j…

I do not agree with the following: > But those profits will not be shared. Human productivity has exploded in the last 120 years, yet we are working longer hours for less pay. I am, however, criticizing this in isolation — that is, my goal is not to invalidate (nor validate, for that matter) the rest of your text; only this specific point. So, I do not agree. We are clearly working a lot less hours than 120 or even 6…

You are ignoring the poorest half the planet, how long does a Bengladeshi woman has to work to buy a washing machine? How many of them even will ever own one? And who made the washing machine you own? Was it made in your country? Or in China?

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#94

Post by adithyan_win »

To make it more digestible and something that I can take during my walks, I converted it into an audio narrated version using ElevenLabs.

If you'd prefer to listen rather than read, you can check out the audio version here : https://open.spotify.com/episode/5qCsTnRKxtHZvvJMGSJ6Df?si=y...

Just wanted to share it in case anyone else is interested. Enjoy!

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#95

Post by jacobedawson »

roenxi wrote: post #91
KaiserPro wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not argue that cogently. At each "node" of the industrial revolution, lots of workers were displaced. (weavers, scriveners, printers, car mechanics). Those workers were highly paid because they were highly skilled. Productivity made things cheaper to make, because it removed the expensive labour required to make it. That means less well paid jobs with controlled hours. This leads to poorly paid jobs with high c…

> who is going to pay for them? not the people who are making the profits. They kinda have to. If I'm so productive at producing food that I grow enough for 2,000 people, I have to find 2,000 people to feed. Or the land sits fallow and I get nothing at all. There is a lot of wiggle room at the margins, but overall it is hard to get away with producing more stuff and warehousing it. We'd expect to see a bunch of silly…

"The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit.

A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth."

John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#96

Post by amelius »

tbrownaw wrote: post #74
amelius wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History tells us that humans will not tolerate any "creature" to exist that is smarter than them, so that is where the story will end.

How exactly does this show up in history ? When did we meet something smarter than us, and what did we do that was different than we were doing to less-smart things at the time?

We couldn't live side by side with Neanderthals. Hell, we can't even live peacefully with a different race.

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#97

Post by kranke155 »

xpe wrote: post #66
kranke155 wrote: post #14

Are Americans really so scared of Marx to admit that AI fundamentally proves his point? Dario here says "yeah likely the economic system won't work anymore" but he doesn't dare say what comes next: It's obvious some kind of socialist system is inevitable, at least for basic goods and housing. How can you deny that to a person in a post-AGI world where almost no one can produce economic value that beats the ever cheap…

This is far from obvious. First, technically speaking, one could have democratic-capitalistic systems with high degrees of redistribution (such as UBI) that don’t fit the pattern of classic socialism. Second, have you read Superintelligence or similar writing? I view it as essential reading before making a claim that some particular AI-related economic future is obvious. There is considerable nuance.

No I haven’t read superintelligence, I’m just going off Dario’s “the economic system won’t hold” and “we have no idea how things could change…”

We have some ideas. But he won’t talk about them because he’ll be accused of being a communist, I think.

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#98

Post by kranke155 »

xpe wrote: post #66
kranke155 wrote: post #14

Are Americans really so scared of Marx to admit that AI fundamentally proves his point? Dario here says "yeah likely the economic system won't work anymore" but he doesn't dare say what comes next: It's obvious some kind of socialist system is inevitable, at least for basic goods and housing. How can you deny that to a person in a post-AGI world where almost no one can produce economic value that beats the ever cheap…

This is far from obvious. First, technically speaking, one could have democratic-capitalistic systems with high degrees of redistribution (such as UBI) that don’t fit the pattern of classic socialism. Second, have you read Superintelligence or similar writing? I view it as essential reading before making a claim that some particular AI-related economic future is obvious. There is considerable nuance.

Universal UBI is effectively socialism to me. I didn’t say anything would fit “classic socialism” (try and have that argument with socialists) just that the endgame of powerful AI / AGI seems obvious.

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#99

Post by j7ake »

chairmansteve wrote: post #83
ManuelKiessling wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not agree with the following: > But those profits will not be shared. Human productivity has exploded in the last 120 years, yet we are working longer hours for less pay. I am, however, criticizing this in isolation — that is, my goal is not to invalidate (nor validate, for that matter) the rest of your text; only this specific point. So, I do not agree. We are clearly working a lot less hours than 120 or even 6…

You are right, but the average person is less happy than in 1970.

Average meaning not gay, not ethnic minority, and not living in China or Soviet Union?

Re: Machines of loving grace: How AI could transform the world for the better

#100

Post by binary132 »

mythrwy wrote: post #19
KaiserPro wrote: post #4

One of the sad things about tech is that nobody really looks at history. The same kinds of essays were written about trains, planes and nuclear power. Before lindbergh went off the deepend, he was convinced that "airmen" were gentlemen and could sort out the world's ills. The essay contains a lot of coulds, but doesn't touch on the base problem: human nature. AI will be used to make things cheaper. That is, lots of j…

But will AI be eventually used to change human nature itself?

No LOL.
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