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Working from home is powering productivity

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Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#291

Post by sokoloff »

RiverCrochet wrote: post #214
Terr_ wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> real-estate value Separately but simultaneously, there are often local tax-benefits which depend on the company "creating jobs", and that's often defined in a way that means butts-in-offices downtown.

so how is that verified, does the local tax authority come in and visually verify the butts in seats?

“Send us a count of employees whose home addresses is in state S (or city C). We reserve the right to audit that count.”

If a politician wants jobs in their state in exchange for state tax breaks (or same for a city or county), they can easily condition it on creating/showing X jobs for people who will there. Remote work can break that.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#292

Post by CalRobert »

vbezhenar wrote: post #283
jandrewrogers wrote: post #260

I think a lot of people are talking past each other. I’ve mostly WFH since long before the pandemic, in many different capacities at many companies. A lot of people have tunnel vision and the reality is more nuanced than most allow. For IC work that requires minimal collaboration, WFH is often more productive. Fewer interruptions, more focus. However, when the role requires detailed collaboration and regular interact…

It might be efficient to work 60 hours week. Doesn't mean we should agree to it. Remote work improves quality of life. I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost, as long as I have a choice. Companies should adapt and if it means that their efficiency will decrease, so be it.

Unfortunately this can be a race to the bottom as companies with wfh are driven out of business by those without

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#293

Post by Roark66 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #260

I think a lot of people are talking past each other. I’ve mostly WFH since long before the pandemic, in many different capacities at many companies. A lot of people have tunnel vision and the reality is more nuanced than most allow. For IC work that requires minimal collaboration, WFH is often more productive. Fewer interruptions, more focus. However, when the role requires detailed collaboration and regular interact…

It really depends on the people you're dealing with and their motivation. I've been working from home 100% since early 2016. You can make it more efficient in almost everything (I don't do creative work - so I don't know how that would go). Add to it better wellbeing, lower environmental impact, better access to skilled workforce and lower cost for the company and there should be no doubt WFH works 100% of the time in 99% of companies. I often had small team leaders, or mid managers tell me, "but I don't really have that close personal relationship with some of the people WFH". Yeah, sometimes you don't. When you have a tough problem in the office and your boss comes down you can show him how everyone is so busy trying to resolve it. You have a group of guys looking very busy here, a loud meeting over there. And you can just run from one group to the other looking extremely involved.... When people WFH you actually need to know what they are doing (very rare a manager will have a knowledge to fully understand a deep tech issue at such level) or you just trust people are doing their best. And that is very difficult to do when you don't know if they aren't having a birthday party with their kid and pretending to work when your world is caving in. The solution? You have to have good technical team leads and you rely on them in such situations.

The horrible non-solution some companies try? Monitoring. Desktop casting, webcam always on. As long as you do that the productivity will plummet far below that of the office. Why? Because you give people another tool to show how busy they are "at work" other than the work itself. If you have no monitoring you have to prove you're working by doing actual work. We all know the products called "mouse jiggle" and such. If you cN get away with looking busy for the camera and moving the mouse many people will. All these people that pretend to work are a huge untapped economic potential. The key to utilising it is making them want to do the work.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#294

Post by Roark66 »

CalRobert wrote: post #292
vbezhenar wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be efficient to work 60 hours week. Doesn't mean we should agree to it. Remote work improves quality of life. I don't care about company KPI or efficiency, I care about my own well-being first and foremost, as long as I have a choice. Companies should adapt and if it means that their efficiency will decrease, so be it.

Unfortunately this can be a race to the bottom as companies with wfh are driven out of business by those without

Show me one example of this.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#295

Post by Roark66 »

tiborsaas wrote: post #199
hirvi74 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WFH takes discipline That is bizarre to me. I find the office takes far more discipline. Do people really get that distracted at home? What is so distracting?

Office is an external discipline forced on you while WFH is an internal discipline no one watching over your shoulders, that's the difference. For an undisciplined person anything can be distracting: birds chirping, picking up a delivery, cooking, a friend dropping by, daily chores like washing, organizing things, etc... it's an endless list really.

It is not easy to say that I'm not a very "internally disciplined" person. I once spent half a year procrastinating instead of working on a personal project. But when you're working for someone (regardless of place), they are paying you for it, and you would like to continue receiving the money, how is this not externally enforced discipline?

I've been WFH since 2016 and I never had an issue with focus when doing paid work. I do want to get paid.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#296

Post by itohihiyt »

rawgabbit wrote: post #229
itohihiyt wrote: post #154

I currently work somewhere where I can't WFH. And as a counterpoint to pretty much everyone here I prefer it. My last role I was able to WFH. Reasons I prefer going into the office: - when work is done, I leave, and it's done. - not using my resources (electricity / broadband / etc) for work. - easier interaction with colleagues. I liked it at the start, and liked the flexibility, but after a while hated that my home…

Tell me where this dream job is and I will apply. For over 20 years I commuted to the office. Some days I stayed late in the office and pulled 12 hour workdays. Most of my time was stolen by coworkers and managers who constantly interrupted or insisted I attend a meeting about some issue I knew nothing about. When I left the office after only putting in 8 hours, I would end up working 2+ hours at home to catch up for…

Haha dream job it is not, but a definite benefit is you never take it home. And I am never not paid overtime if I work beyond my hours. I could definitely get a better paid job but this one is good enough with a decent work/life balance.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#297

Post by sph »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #281
J_Shelby_J wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good comment and I had to think about it for a minute. I do agree with you in practicality, but I also think in person works because most people flat out can’t or won’t take the time to communicate effectively in writing. Put them in a room and they’re suddenly forced to do it. But that said, just because most people can’t effectively communicate and instead use async communications like slack zombies is no…

For the vast majority of human existence the majority of communication was done verbally and in person. We’ve never communicated this much with text and most of that increase has probably come in the past, what, 20 years? I think rather than people being lazy/inept it’s more a case of our brains struggling to adapt to a way of communication that is thousands of years newer than speech.

People adapted pretty well to being glued to a screen and reading order of magnitudes more than they were used to... or do most people just spend 12h in front of phones just scrolling pictures and watching videos? I honestly don't know.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#298

Post by sph »

ahimthedream wrote: post #146
throwaway918299 wrote: post #52

I am literally at least 10x when I work from home. I have ADHD and through years of discipline, cultivating my workspace to suit my needs, and hard work I can be productive most of the day in the zone without (much) sidetracking. Literally impossible for me to do in the modern software dev sweatshop. I also make more money, can spend more time with my family because I don’t commute, and plenty of other positives. I l…

You are the anomaly, not the norm. WFH takes discipline, work ethic and honestly the ability to manage a work life balance. Doing this is hard, like you said. Problem is most people aren’t disciplined:)

WFH requires discipline, but allows you more freedom to mould your environment to your needs.

It's taken me a decade to find the perfect balance, which is total complete silence, but I would be absolutely powerless in turning an open-space office job into the monk's retreat I need.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#299

Post by sph »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #169
itohihiyt wrote: post #154

I currently work somewhere where I can't WFH. And as a counterpoint to pretty much everyone here I prefer it. My last role I was able to WFH. Reasons I prefer going into the office: - when work is done, I leave, and it's done. - not using my resources (electricity / broadband / etc) for work. - easier interaction with colleagues. I liked it at the start, and liked the flexibility, but after a while hated that my home…

> when work is done, I leave, and it's done. To quote Dilbert: > Now let me get this straight. The time I spend in the shower actually thinking about solving problems is not "work." The time I spend at the office attending meaningless meetings is "work."

Hence why I'm now a consultant and get paid by the day/week.

I have no control over my brain switch, so I somehow need to be paid for the brilliant ideas I get in the shower. Also, I don't want to be required to sit 8 hours if I already do 4 hours overtime because my brain is working 24/7.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#300

Post by 4ndrewl »

ahimthedream wrote: post #146
throwaway918299 wrote: post #52

I am literally at least 10x when I work from home. I have ADHD and through years of discipline, cultivating my workspace to suit my needs, and hard work I can be productive most of the day in the zone without (much) sidetracking. Literally impossible for me to do in the modern software dev sweatshop. I also make more money, can spend more time with my family because I don’t commute, and plenty of other positives. I l…

You are the anomaly, not the norm. WFH takes discipline, work ethic and honestly the ability to manage a work life balance. Doing this is hard, like you said. Problem is most people aren’t disciplined:)

And yet the IMF report seems to suggest that, even if your data is correct, all aspects of the economy benefit.
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