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Working from home is powering productivity

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Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#251
post #242
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unfortunate that it has gotten so black and white. I’m a big fan of WFH. But I also think it’s beneficial to see people in the office and interact on a regular basis. Why can’t we have both?

> Why can’t we have both? having both is equivalent to having WFH (but without the cost savings to the business regarding office rentals). People who want an office are likely doing so in the expectation that there'd be people there. What actually happens is that the office is semi-empty on most days, and you'd get a few ghosts here and there (unless there's mandated office days). So in the end, hybrid (without manda…

I kind of think WeWork’s business model might have succeeded in the WFH post-Covid era.

It allows the company to be flexible with meeting space budget without being on the hook for permanent space.

My company ran out of space pre-Covid, so we would book random meeting spaces (within walking distance) around the city.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#252
post #25

Companies that require RTO, if they actually want their employees to return to office, should prioritize in their messaging the objective benefits/cost to working in the office. No vague-speak, no shaming people claiming that workers "don't work" at home, but rather objective analysis on what exact benefits they seek to accrue by mandating that work that could be done anywhere in the world must be done in separate ro…

It’s an open secret that there is no data that supports RTO. If there was, at even one company, it would be screamed from the rooftops. (I don’t believe it’s all covert layoffs either - it’s imho the more banal reason of c-level personal feelings and groupthink)

It's an open secret that we have no idea how to actually measure tech company productivity. That's why there isn't and will not be clear evidence for or against RTO.

Best you can do is pick a narrow enough sliver that it is measurable. Then claim it is the "important" view and wow, what a shock, the data supports your position!

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Amazon needs people to fill their expensive offices in Seattle, or otherwise explain to investors that they wasted billions of dollars building new offices that were used less than 5 years.

>> otherwise explain to investors that they wasted billions of dollars building new offices that were used less than 5 years. So what? I mean companies write down things all the time. "We've revalued our $billion office and adjusted our balance sheet to match. Cause was a global pandemic which we considered as a risk factor in 2019, but it was negligible." Stock will drop a % or two for a week, then recover and move…

I agree in that I don't think explaining a write off is a problem, per se. But I do see Amazon taking a long term view of their real estate investment and saying "OK we have it in our power to make this payoff" which dynamic is not in play with most writedowns.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hang on, why would I rent office space, to WFH? I don't mean to be blunt but I this seems ridiculous. >If it works for you I'm happy for you. For me I like that clear separation where it's not easy to slip into working beyond your time. You answered your own question. The article is using work from home as a catchall term for remote work but not everyone who works from home wants to literally work from home. Some c…

If I did I can't see it. You'll have to forgive my ignorance for assuming we were talking WFH instead of remote working. I got confused when it stated work from home instead of remote working. Either way "some companies" ain't mine, and I'm not being out of pocket for work.

[flagged]

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#256

I currently work somewhere where I can't WFH. And as a counterpoint to pretty much everyone here I prefer it. My last role I was able to WFH. Reasons I prefer going into the office: - when work is done, I leave, and it's done. - not using my resources (electricity / broadband / etc) for work. - easier interaction with colleagues. I liked it at the start, and liked the flexibility, but after a while hated that my home…

Tell me where this dream job is and I will apply. For over 20 years I commuted to the office. Some days I stayed late in the office and pulled 12 hour workdays. Most of my time was stolen by coworkers and managers who constantly interrupted or insisted I attend a meeting about some issue I knew nothing about. When I left the office after only putting in 8 hours, I would end up working 2+ hours at home to catch up for…

as with all things your experience depends on context. if you are part of a business team that needs to request things off other people and build off needing something from others, then you love working from the office cuz the others are available for you

if in turn, you are someone who completes projects for other people to pay you back on, then you realize that you'd rather be able to heads down work and also take 100% credit for it

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the (US) military, the sergeants run the army. NCOs are highly-trained, and have been the secret of managing battlefield chaos, for generations. They don't do strategy, but they do tactics, like nobody's business, and are often highly valuable input into development of strategies. They are given tremendous agency, and are highly trained. The military does a great job of training and retaining highly-experienced, a…

> First-line managers have a similar role, but they are treated like garbage by their superiors, and consider their position a "necessary evil," towards higher ranks. This is because most companies don't have a promotion track above "Senior Software Engineer" that doesn't involve people-management, which is an entirely different job. It's as if you ran a restaurant and in order for your highest rated chef to get prom…

Isn't this just the nature of the business? I'm sure there aren't many plumbers or factory workers who have a level similar to a senior director in plumbing companies either: as an IC, there is a cap to how much contribution you can bring to a company, limited by the type of job you do. Of course, the same is true for managers as well, and the vast majority of directors are vastly overpaid, but that's a different discussion. My point is that all or almost all industries have this distinction, and the people in charge of companies are almost all doing a different job than someone just starting in their fields. Even in law firms, the senior partners are very rarely, if ever, doing the type of litigation they would when they started out. Probably no different than a CTO doing actual technology work.

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#258
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when work is done, I leave, and it's done. To quote Dilbert: > Now let me get this straight. The time I spend in the shower actually thinking about solving problems is not "work." The time I spend at the office attending meaningless meetings is "work."

It's a mental separation kind of thing. When I've had jobs where I work at an office, I am able to mentally leave work at work. When I've worked from home, I struggle to do that and end up thinking about work when showering or doing dishes.

before covid, you had this 9 to 5 separation where people were required to come in so they basically did, and after they left they would just sometimes even leave the laptops at work

during covid you took afternoon naps. so then this liberty also traded for you to work other odd hours with a get-it-done-when-you-can mentality outside the 9 to 5

post covid now? the employers want to have their cake and eat it too; where they require you to come to the office, then go home and work on for some further hours. I even had a senior position where I had a 1 a.m. and a 2 a.m. call. suffice to say I left really soon after

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Globally much of the pro-office camp's public position is driven by personal leanings of CEOs who genuinely seem to have made the decisions without evidence In some cases, the pressure is also coming from external to the company, from cities and VCs and similar who care about the commercial real-estate value of now-abandoned offices.

I'm going to need some data to prove this. I keep seeing this claim, but have not seen anything more than conjecture. There are just too many factors for this, and you would have to believe that a company is willing to throw away money for this to happen.

2/3 of corporate real estate are empty and the commercial real estate market is due for a major crash. a lot of assets on companies balance sheets are for the offices that they own. or leave empty while leased

Re: Working from home is powering productivity

#260
I think a lot of people are talking past each other. I’ve mostly WFH since long before the pandemic, in many different capacities at many companies. A lot of people have tunnel vision and the reality is more nuanced than most allow.

For IC work that requires minimal collaboration, WFH is often more productive. Fewer interruptions, more focus. However, when the role requires detailed collaboration and regular interaction with others, productivity for WFH falls off a cliff. This has been measurable at every company I’ve worked for that does a decent job of collecting these metrics. And anecdotally, I can feel it in my own job. When I am doing focus work, WFH is great and I get a lot done. When I need a lot of whiteboard time or deep discussions with my peers, WFH is very inefficient regardless of the remote setup, and the difference is so stark that it is difficult to argue.

I think most people are talking their own book. If you are an IC or mostly just do individual focus work, then of course WFH is great. If you need to iteratively collaborate with people on complex design problems or work products, WFH objectively has low efficiency in every organization I’ve seen try it, including companies that are remote-centric.

There is a lot of motivated reasoning in these discussions and little acknowledgement that productivity between WFH and RTO varies greatly depending on the task at hand. Every company and most roles are a mix of these types of tasks. I think many companies these days recognize this and try to allocate accordingly, but it creates legal, social, and other issues if you treat employees differently in this regard based on the nature of their roles. The reality that some people must commute to do their jobs effectively creates a class system of sorts but organizations needs all roles to be setup to ensure reasonable productivity.

This is not a black and white situation, it is a complex social problem.

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