Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

404media.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 263 posts

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#251

Post by stevenicr »

robertoandred wrote: post #241
stevenicr wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like you to expand on reasons for this? I can think of a few for some cases.. However I have around 50 websites or so that are running just fine without Gutenberg.. and if you count the number of updates WP and plugins and themes have rolled out since Gutenberg and multiple that by 50, most of these updates have been an annoying use of time. That being said, Gutenberg stuff today is pretty mature and I do recomme…

As you said Gutenberg (and now FSE) are in core and the default for developing and authoring WordPress sites. For ClassicPress to be an alternative, you would've had to have intentionally veered from what WordPress gave you. Sure, some sites may have chosen to use a site builder or Classic Editor with ACF, but those that didn't are left out in the cold by ClassicPress's decisions.

It may not be apparent now, but I believe the main point of classic press was that so many people did not want Gutenberg and they were forcing it in anyway - that classicPress - the whole point of the project is to build with gutenberg and not have the bloat 'from what WordPress gave you'

I don't think it's just 'some sites' choosing to use other builders and reject Gutenberg. the plugin repo shows that the 'classic editor' plugin has over 10 million active installations.

(classic editor removes gutenberg from the backend screens) - so it's not being left out in the cold, it's keeping things running fine without Gutenbloat.

So there was/is a huge need for ClassicPress - it's just that there is an easier way to get a very similar result with WordPress and that is install an extra plugin to remove the 'new plugin' of Gutengerg -

and since it's so easy to get back the functionality with a few clicks, may people are leaving many websites without the performance boost of leaner WP and getting the same classic backend..

If autaomattic had not put the classic editor in the repo, many more would of sought out the fork and classicPress would be dealing with more than 10 million sites relying on it.

This has been a pretty big issue for some time now, and only very recently would I start to lean into Gutenberg being a mature enough replacement that I start to advocate for it's use.

But really there is no need for it - if you wanted a page builder years ago there were plenty, and still are.

The great thing about it has been the pulling in other aspects like performance issues and reusable styles and such - so it has helped make WP better in other areas along the way, so now I am okay with it.

Being left out in the cold without Guten just means a leaner site that loads faster unless you get into elementor or some other heavy bloatware to have click/drag GUI - but it's not the only option now or back then.

Today, it's fine either way.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#252

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

nchmy wrote: post #157
GavinAnderegg wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about revision history, as Matt laid out here: https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wp-engine/ However, disabling revision history is a setting offered as part of WordPress: https://wordpress.org/documentation/article/revisions/#revis... I'd argue that WordPress.com, the paid hosting platform that Automattic operates, is more of a "hacked up, bastardized simulacra of WordPress’s GPL code". By default you can only…

Its not about revision history. That's just one of 429 contradictory reasons that matt has given for why he's doing this. Dont take ANYTHING that guy says at face value - he's a psychopath Youre absolutely right though - WP dot com is by far the worst offender of his own standards.

Revision history is the only fig leaf here though about wp-engine being "bastardized wordpress" ?

I suppose I understand the argument about wp-engine using significant wordpress.org resources has some merit (but is entirely unrelated to the bastardization argument) if wp-engine is just fetching things like wordpress updates and plugin lists and plugin updates, etc, all directly from wordpress.org servers on a per-blog basis but I find it hard to believe that wp-engine doesn't cache or have their own layer for that.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#253

Post by niutech »

QQ00 wrote: post #94
dylan604 wrote: post #90

This whole bit of drama really makes me glad I never invested time/energy in WordPress. It's like Real Housewives of Computer Nerds level of whining, and feels just as fake. Regardless of right/wrong, the whole thing has just turned into a 80s made for TV type of situation. There was a much better way at handling this, but somebody had access to social media and the wheels promptly fell off.

but what's better alternative aside from rolling your own CMS?

Publii (https://getpublii.com) is open source and super fast, without the need for PHP/MySQL.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#254

Post by beaconify »

1-more wrote: post #109
dylan604 wrote: post #90

This whole bit of drama really makes me glad I never invested time/energy in WordPress. It's like Real Housewives of Computer Nerds level of whining, and feels just as fake. Regardless of right/wrong, the whole thing has just turned into a 80s made for TV type of situation. There was a much better way at handling this, but somebody had access to social media and the wheels promptly fell off.

> Real Housewives of Computer Nerds OK you've convinced me to get invested in this.

Beauty and the geek?

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#255

Post by beaconify »

bigiain wrote: post #135
Zak wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nice thing is it's GPL, so the founder/owner can't just take his ball and go home. It's also widely-used/important enough that it will get forked if leadership problems start to make it unusable for too many people.

The problem though, for people who want to use WordPress, is that WP sites fundamentally rely on wordpress.org for downloading and installing plugins and themes, and critically for security updates to plugins and themes. (You can install/update manually, but the standard admin dashbord is set up to make wordpress.org integration by far the best way to do so.) Yeah, you've got your GPL copy of all the source code. But…

Over stated. Just go to hostgator or one of the million clones and select to auto update or use a plugin to do it. Also use the backup plugin.

The real issue is if WP gets fractured or abandoned or weird license issues etc. Then I take my luggage to hugo or similar.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#256

Post by beaconify »

johnklos wrote: post #117

The title literally made me laugh out loud. What drama! What intrigue! Can't wait to see what happens next. Honestly, I have no horse in the race, so to speak. I think the people responsible for Wordpress code still suck because they still, in 2024, want the software itself to be able to write to where the software itself lives and runs, which is just bananas. It violates the first two rules of anything and everythin…

Which is also why it is successful! You can get powerful plugins that way.

Is it much different from a windows app installer asking admin permissions then editing the registry and can plaster files anywhere.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#258

Post by ivanmontillam »

wingmanjd wrote: post #198
QQ00 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but what's better alternative aside from rolling your own CMS?

I've enjoyed GravCMS [1], another php based CMS that used markdown for its content instead of a database. For those interested in migrating away, I wrote an exporter from WordPress to Grav [2], which, given recent events, I've pulled back out and am updating again. [1] https://getgrav.org/ [2] https://github.com/jgonyea/wp2grav_exporter

Yeah, I also use Grav in Production in my personal website.

They are good people, but they definitely need more contributors!

What Grav lacks is momentum.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#259

Post by hammyhavoc »

beaconify wrote: post #255
bigiain wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem though, for people who want to use WordPress, is that WP sites fundamentally rely on wordpress.org for downloading and installing plugins and themes, and critically for security updates to plugins and themes. (You can install/update manually, but the standard admin dashbord is set up to make wordpress.org integration by far the best way to do so.) Yeah, you've got your GPL copy of all the source code. But…

Over stated. Just go to hostgator or one of the million clones and select to auto update or use a plugin to do it. Also use the backup plugin. The real issue is if WP gets fractured or abandoned or weird license issues etc. Then I take my luggage to hugo or similar.

Having a backup to restore from is not really the major concern versus mitigating being hacked in the first place, having your database stolen, and needing to report that, whilst surviving the reputational damage and penalty fees that likely brings.

A restorable backup isn't really a priority versus the above.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#260

Post by i_am_jl »

ceejayoz wrote: post #145
i_am_jl wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, allow me to clarify. Matt voices a number of grievances including WP Engine's changes to WordPress, their use of the term "WP", their donation/sponsorships, and more. At first glance they all seem a bit silly. The important context, in my opinion, is that this comes after the breakdown of a licensing agreement between WP Engine and Automattic, an agreement that would've seen tens of millions of dollars paid to…

But they explicitly say, and have for years, that “WP” can be used by anyone for any purpose. You can’t turn around and try to enforce that.

>But they explicitly say, and have for years, that “WP” can be used by anyone for any purpose.

>You can’t turn around and try to enforce that.

I'm not sure what you mean. WordPress is quite clearly turning around and trying to enforce that.

It's a shakedown, the whole point is to force WP Engine back into licensing talks. A bulletproof legal foundation isn't necessary, just a legitimate complaint that can force WP Engine into court.

Post reply on HN