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Tesla Robotaxi

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Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#631

Post by kevinventullo »

valianteffort wrote: post #505
benterix wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had 2 dozen vehicles with no steering wheels taking attendees around the venue. To quote a participant[0]: > After over 10 years of Full Self-Driving development, @Tesla is limited to a 20-30 acre geofenced 5mph ride on a preprogrammed, premapped and heavily rehearsed route with no traffic and no pedestrians. [0] https://x.com/realdanodowd/status/1844605093368512799

There are countless videos on youtube of people recording their experience with FSD's open beta. It is probably 90% of the way there, if not more. Anyone who thinks Tesla won't get there first is peak delusional. Hate on Elon as much as you want, but Tesla are top-tier engineering. Real funny seeing a bunch of web devs on HN talk shit about Tesla's engineers too lmao

I live in Los Angeles, and Tesla will not get here first because Waymo has already arrived.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#632

Post by nytesky »

I find these half measure autopilots way more stressful than actually just driving.

Level 2-3 FSD is worse experience in my opinion.

1) driving as human — if I see brake lights, I apply brakes: see my turn, turn the wheel.

2) Tesla “driving” - if I see brake lights, I have to evaluate “did FSD See those lights, is it applying brakes” EVERY TIME. Because I need to pay attention. THEN I may apply the brakes and turn wheel (and if you use FSD a LOT, those skills will atrophy). it needs human intervention about once a day. But you never know when that will be.

We either need FSD or humans driving. Shared dynamically adhoc responsibility for the car is way way worse.

The CyberCab at least improves on that by removing the steering wheel, so when it makes mistakes you just along for the ride.

I am a curmudgeon though; I don’t even use cruise control, and the radar following cruise control gives me the same hereby jeebies “is it braking??” Problem

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#633

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

enragedcacti wrote: post #577
porphyra wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cruise had driverless robotaxis on the streets while they had 2.5 to 5 miles per intervention. [1] I think FSD 12.5 is way beyond that --- I drove over 20 miles yesterday with zero interventions. Also, having ridden Waymo in San Francisco many times, I find that the FSD is actually slightly smoother and handles stuff like going around obstacles and blockages more naturally, although, as you are no doubt aware, there…

Not to defend Cruise too much, but the 2.5 to 5 miles stat is misleading in that they aren't real time disengagements. They are instances where the vehicle proactively identified a situation where it wasn't confident enough to proceed and then safely stopped while awaiting a response. This is obviously way too often in terms being a courteous and legal road user but its completely different from a driver taking over…

It’s just differently unsafe because it assumes that “safely stopping” is possible which may not be true in every situation.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#634

Post by nytesky »

dsr_ wrote: post #544
ben_w wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HE can do nothing of the sort because he is an idiot with very few real skills. Management is a real skill. Salesmanship is also a real skill. I may not approve of the showboating, but drumming up enthusiasm for a future that most consider to be fantasy, was a necessary (though not sufficient) part of building an electric car company in an era when most people thought hydrogen was the future and that "electric car"…

Pretty sure nobody except Toyota thought hydrogen was going to be a useful intermediate fuel: handling is ridiculously difficult compared to room-temperature liquids, energy density is ridiculously low. It would have made more sense to sell Fischer-Tropsch synthesized carbon fuel from purpose-grown crops, at a mere 3x the current production price of fossil carbon fuels, using the existing infrastructure for distribut…

I wonder if Honda and Toyota are still backing on a carbon neutral fuel replacement. They have been slow to electrify.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#635

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

paxys wrote: post #346
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Tesla drives me around SF every day yet you're telling me it doesn't

And yet you have to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention at all times. Why is that?

For the record, you no longer have to keep your hands on the wheel at all times.

I think it’s a mistake to conflate the actual capabilities of the system with the user instructions for how the system is being used. SAE levels are primarily about the latter and about who takes liability for the operation of the vehicle. Conflating the two punishes car manufacturers who are cautious about the current state of their self-driving system.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#636

Post by porphyra »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #633
enragedcacti wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend Cruise too much, but the 2.5 to 5 miles stat is misleading in that they aren't real time disengagements. They are instances where the vehicle proactively identified a situation where it wasn't confident enough to proceed and then safely stopped while awaiting a response. This is obviously way too often in terms being a courteous and legal road user but its completely different from a driver taking over…

It’s just differently unsafe because it assumes that “safely stopping” is possible which may not be true in every situation.

Didn't the unfortunate incident where it dragged a pedestrian happen because it tried to "safely pull over" while dragging her?

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#637

Post by haliskerbas »

hackernewds wrote: post #297
rapsey wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymos drive in limited geofenced zones. FSD exists but needs driver supervision. Both are incomplete and it is unknown who will be the winner.

The geofence can extend. Drivers are harder to replace.

Have been seeing both the LA and SF Waymo operating zones increase steadily. Also seen Waymo's being driven manually outside of those ranges presumably for further development.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#638

Post by forgot-im-old »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #623
bravetraveler wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with eyes can see him cozying up to public funding/Uncle Sam

debatable given how much he's been cozying up to the Russians and Saudis betcha in 10 years time we'll learn about all of the ITAR violations and other shady behavior

That's typical smoke screening when your'e working with the CIA as the link implies

Don't have to wait 10 years if you read the WikiLeaks above.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#639

Post by enragedcacti »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #633
enragedcacti wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend Cruise too much, but the 2.5 to 5 miles stat is misleading in that they aren't real time disengagements. They are instances where the vehicle proactively identified a situation where it wasn't confident enough to proceed and then safely stopped while awaiting a response. This is obviously way too often in terms being a courteous and legal road user but its completely different from a driver taking over…

It’s just differently unsafe because it assumes that “safely stopping” is possible which may not be true in every situation.

I don't have any clue if it assumes that, I was just illustrating the difference in failure modes. In either case differently unsafe is not mutually exclusive with being orders of magnitude safer overall which Cruise is compared to current FSD when unsupervised.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#640

Post by darepublic »

bellgrove wrote: post #573
valianteffort wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are countless videos on youtube of people recording their experience with FSD's open beta. It is probably 90% of the way there, if not more. Anyone who thinks Tesla won't get there first is peak delusional. Hate on Elon as much as you want, but Tesla are top-tier engineering. Real funny seeing a bunch of web devs on HN talk shit about Tesla's engineers too lmao

I feel like there’s some software adage about the last 10% being the hardest. It certainly holds true from my experience - even if they are 90% of the way there, it’s not a linear path to 100%.

so the 90% is really meaningless in that case.. it's what we judge to be 90% which is erroneous.
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