Tesla Robotaxi • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#461

Post by apienx » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:33 AM UTC

After predicting that, in the long term, humanoid robots will cost less than a car, Mr. Musk added: "It'll take up a minute to get to the long term".

Please stop trolling, Elon.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#462

Post by ben_w » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:33 AM UTC

15155 wrote: post #404

ben_w wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it also released at a significantly higher price than announced? """In 2019, Musk claimed that the Cybertruck would be available in late 2021, starting at $39,900. The date was later pushed to 2022, and eventually it was pushed to late 2023, with a starting price of $60,990.""" - according to the Wikipedia page. I'd definitely count that as bait and switch from the price change alone.

Ah right, the price should have remained the same despite the highest worldwide monetary inflation rates in the last 40 years. I can't imagine why would a company want to sell a product at a profit.

Gee, if only there was a comparable item to measure inflation against…

Tesla Model Y:

$39,000 in 2019, the same year the Cybertruck was announced - https://www.reuters.com/article/technology/tesla-unveils-mod...

$31,490 today - https://www.tesla.com/compare

So, a price cut then. From the same company, on the same time horizon.

--

Even on longer timelines, inflation isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Tesla Model S:

$57,400 in 2009 - https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-motors-sets-new-pri...

$68,490 today - https://www.tesla.com/compare

Thats a 19.32% price increase in one of Tesla's other cars over 15 years, compared to a 52.857% price increase of the Cybetruck in the 5 years between it being announced and today.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#463

Post by forgot-im-old » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:34 AM UTC

nolok wrote: post #452

forgot-im-old wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don't know what you're talking about. That "visiting 4 Star General" now reports full time to Elon, as the WSJ determined via numerous sources.

And? Is he still a general while reporting full time to Elon? If yes you have a bigger scandal, active duty general report full time to private interests! If not then it's what happens when high level public official leaves office to go in the private space, of course he works for one of the connection he made. Unless you have proof that despite his leaving office he has an active decisionnary role on public and defe…

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Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#464

Post by ben_w » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:35 AM UTC

15155 wrote: post #437

fabbari wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give some numbers to back it up? Considering the loss due to inflation from 2019 [1] I would have expected the truck to get to around $49,200. [1] https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2019?amount=1

What numbers am I backing up? Should the price have remained the same? Or was 2022 not the highest year for USD inflation in 40 years (see: your own source.) Is a company only allowed to increase their prices at a rate pegged to monetary inflation?

> Is a company only allowed to increase their prices at a rate pegged to monetary inflation?

If they want to avoid a reputation for dishonesty, yes.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#465

Post by A_D_E_P_T » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:35 AM UTC

Qwertious wrote: post #435

lenkite wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Cybertruck was announced as vapourware in 2019 and got limited production only in 2023. It was also delayed. Wonder whether it would have been also considered "bait and switch setup" according to your stance.

Look at the announced price and all the claimed features then. We were promised a bulletproof amphibious truck for (IIRC) $40k, and we got a truck whose warranty is void if you drive in the rain, costing $80k for the base model. Also it won't even stop .22LR bullets. We were also promised micron panel gaps. the panel gaps on the cybertruck are both visible and visibly uneven. It's really weird to see anyone even impl…

> Also it won't even stop .22LR bullets.

Seriously? Is there proof of this?

The body panels are pretty thick, and they're made of an austenitic nitrogen steel -- a modified form of 316LN -- which should perform nearly as well as any "armor grade" steel alloy. (Against steel fragments, it likely performs poorly, but against lead handgun rounds it is likely even superior to the average high-hardness armor steel.) Just on the face of it, I'd expect the Cybertruck's body to stop any threat up to .44 Magnum.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#466

Post by peutetre » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:35 AM UTC

huijzer wrote: post #423

DennisL123 wrote: post #242

Classic bait and switch setup. Selling people the future in 2 years time with little to nothing to show for today. Timelines will slip, plans will change, software won‘t be ready, prices will change. And that doesn’t even account for where Waymo is in two years from now, or what the Chinese EV industry is able to pull off until then. Even this underwhelming event was originally announced on short notice to prop up pe…

> with little to nothing to show for today Although they didn't "show" it on the event, Tesla self-driving is steadily improving each month. It is now also available on the Cybertruck, and the miles per intervention metric is steadily improving. You can find many videos on YouTube. Note that this are real cars on the real road.

The problem is Tesla and Musk have been lying about full self-driving for years: https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/

In 2016 Tesla said that "as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." That was a lie: https://electrek.co/2024/08/24/tesla-deletes-its-blog-post-s...

Tesla even lies about things as dumb as Cybertruck quarter mile times:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE

https://insideevs.com/news/699260/tesla-cybertruck-porsche-r...

Tesla never ran that quarter mile. And the worst thing about it was the Cybertruck's lead engineer trying to rationalize the lie:

https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1746266437088645551

When your engineers lack commitment to basic honesty then you've got a sick company culture.

Lying is just too much a part of the culture at Tesla. Musk clearly doesn't value honesty or credibility.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#467

Post by acd10j » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:38 AM UTC

AlotOfReading wrote: post #229

acd10j wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go down to basic physical material costs, Surface area of car, Metal cost, Glass cost etc, are the things which will determine car price in long run, So car which is weighting let's say 25% percent less can be be built cheaper compared to car weighting more. Less doors, less glass use, less paint, less material, less battery needed for same amount of distance, which brings down to cost.

I can assure you that you don't save 25%. Yes, there are small savings, but they're dominated by the fixed costs of producing a vehicle at all.

Ok, lets think of it other way, all things equal, if you are tasked with cutting costs of vehicle without cutting back things which makes your brand unique, and without reducing margin or running on loss how will you do it? You make vehicle simpler, with less expensive parts. That's how hardware design works. Cutting back on quality or software expense is not a option for Tesla as that will make Tesla equal to any other Chinese EV brand.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#468

Post by jona-f » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:38 AM UTC

lowkey wrote: post #417

narrator wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading any HN thread connected to Musk is so annoying because all the political obsessives come out and crapflood the thread with rants about "manbabies."

Reading HN threads ranting about “manbabies” when referring to arguably the single greatest innovator and entrepreneur of our time was not on my bingo card on a site purporting to promote innovation and entrepreneurship.

So, going back on topic, how is the robotaxi business going, that Musk promised you could start 2020? His success relies on delusional people believing his bs. No amount of real world facts will convince his followers he was wrong, as you just publicly displayed.

Re: Tesla Robotaxi

#469

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 8:39 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #457

mrich wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla at a forward P/E of 80 is massively overvalued as a car company. You can get Mercedes or BMW at a P/E of 6, with a 9% yield. Sure, the EV market is still growing, but Tesla is not the only player. All brands now have EVs, there are both cheaper and more luxurious Chinese EVs, that's some massive competition. The only reasons Tesla could be valued differently are FSD and Robotics, which Musk and Tesla-friendly a…

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