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PHP Addiction

marco.org

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Re: PHP Addiction

#271

Post by andrewflnr »

adventureful wrote: post #179
andrewflnr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else exactly did you think was? Well, in principle, there's no reason any one language has to run half the web by itself. And there are also static pages.

You don't agree with the notion that many tech products like web languages (or browsers, operating systems / mobile platforms, or whatever) tend to trend heavily toward a single dominant product (either due to one simply being better, and or a benefit derived from scale of use such as plugins or knowledge availability etc etc)?

Sure, they tend to, but in principle they don't have to. I would want to assume that the GP assumes that one language runs over half the web.

Of course, once actual evidence is involved, this is just an adventure in nitpicking.

Re: PHP Addiction

#272

Post by mappu »

I have a lowendbox for personal PHP projects. I'd love something with a little more static typing, but there's really no alternative (maybe Perl in strict mode?) that isn't going to blow out my 128M ram (no chance of Tomcat). Perhaps C++, but i'd need to first sort out a good templating system, and FastCGI wrapper / spawner.

Re: PHP Addiction

#273

Post by x3c »

laconian wrote: post #246
nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a longtime fan of Linux and have used it as my desktop of choice for years, but apparently you and I have a different idea of what "beautiful" is. That screenshot is a ghastly smattering of black, grey, and red, with no unified look or feel. Sublime Text is really good looking in its own right, but that overall desktop doesn't look appealing to me. Granted, I use Gnome Shell for my desktop of choice, and find tha…

Do you even notice the "beauty" after spending a week with it?

You notice ugliness everytime you use it. The beauty in UX/UI/Window Manager lies in it just being there, not distracting but complementing one when he/she is working.

That's my definition of beauty. I can go days without noticing it and if I take a step back and take in the whole experience, I find the beauty.

Ubuntu does it for me. Especially because I can take time to make it beautiful for me and I can have a free hand while doing it.

Re: PHP Addiction

#274

Post by tikhonj »

flatline3 wrote: post #270
tikhonj wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, Linux is actually easier to maintain. For example, when I was using OS X (several years ago, now), I could not figure out how to update Java. Apparently it involved using the "Software Center", but it didn't actually work, so I was stuck with the old version. So the project I was working on in Windows at the time just didn't work on OS X because it was using new APIs. Absurd! I've never had a proble…

Reading your comment has reaffirmed my decision to drop Linux as a daily desktop OS. I remember everything you're describing from 10 years ago, and if things are still operating that way, then I'm glad I'm not using Linux. It's clear from your comment that you don't understand how to use OS X as a developer. I used the BSDs and Linux on the desktop for most of the 90s, and have stayed current with Linux on both serve…

Right, an ad hominem. Great.

I did use OS X for Java development for a whole year. Moreover, I've had to use it a little bit recently at school and work, so I've played around with the newest versions. If that isn't enough experience to "understand" OS X, I'm not sure what is.

Not much else to say here, because all you've done is act condescending and solely attack my perceived credibility. Because, obviously, if I didn't like OS X, I just didn't understand it!

Re: PHP Addiction

#275

Post by flatline3 »

tikhonj wrote: post #274
flatline3 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading your comment has reaffirmed my decision to drop Linux as a daily desktop OS. I remember everything you're describing from 10 years ago, and if things are still operating that way, then I'm glad I'm not using Linux. It's clear from your comment that you don't understand how to use OS X as a developer. I used the BSDs and Linux on the desktop for most of the 90s, and have stayed current with Linux on both serve…

Right, an ad hominem . Great. I did use OS X for Java development for a whole year. Moreover, I've had to use it a little bit recently at school and work, so I've played around with the newest versions. If that isn't enough experience to "understand" OS X, I'm not sure what is. Not much else to say here, because all you've done is act condescending and solely attack my perceived credibility. Because, obviously, if I…

> Because, obviously, if I didn't like OS X, I just didn't understand it!

No, you just plain don't understand how to use it, so there wasn't really any room left to discuss its relative merits. Whether or not you liked it is irrelevant given that your judgements were based on an acquired understanding of Linux, and a terse at best understanding of Mac OS X.

Let's just take your git example:

> More recently, I tried to install Git on OS X (without administrator access). It was a horrible pain, so now I only ever log on to the Linux servers at school

How exactly was it more difficult on Mac OS X? Did you try to ./configure && make && make install by hand, just like on Linux-sans-admin-access? Or did you try to use MacPorts' or homebrew's support for running without admin access, and simply tried '(port|brew) install git'?

Or, let's talk about Java:

> I did use OS X for Java development for a whole year.

During that whole year, you never stumbled onto Apple Menu -> Software Update? It runs automatically, you don't even have to invoke it manually.

You never googled "Mac" and "Java" and determined that Apple provided the Mac port of Java? Assuming this was in the time period of the 1.5 release, you never found Soylatte using Google, and used that?

Or, your friend with the LaTeX problem:

  port install texlive
Works fine.

Re: PHP Addiction

#276

Post by beefsack »

cletus wrote: post #121

Is it my imagination or is Marco the king of writing blog posts that are quick reactions to whatever is trending on HN? The message you should get from this post is that familiarity with one's tools easily trumps any aesthetic flaws (consistency in parameter ordering, naming conventions, etc are really nothing more than aesthetic flaws and not "deep" [1] as the author suggests. After all, human language is inconsiste…

I'm actually quite the opposite, I've been a long time Linux user (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, and more recently Arch) and recently I decided to dive head first into OSX for work and play.

OSX is beautiful, it's smooth, and it can run a lot of my games too. But, just like Windows, it lacks functionality. Setting up a MAMP server with my required PHP extensions for work was an absolute nightmare even with Homebrew. Even when working with my Ruby projects I was struggling, when some gems required certain libraries to be installed, it was a nightmare to install them too.

Not to mention installing software and keeping it up to date was a pain too. Once you become used to relying on robust package managers it's very difficult to turn back.

Linux is designed to be powerful and functional foremost, and that's what makes it fantastic.

Re: PHP Addiction

#277

Post by [deleted] »

antihero wrote: post #183
cletus wrote: post #121

Is it my imagination or is Marco the king of writing blog posts that are quick reactions to whatever is trending on HN? The message you should get from this post is that familiarity with one's tools easily trumps any aesthetic flaws (consistency in parameter ordering, naming conventions, etc are really nothing more than aesthetic flaws and not "deep" [1] as the author suggests. After all, human language is inconsiste…

Desktop Linux is actually fucking fantastic if you are prepared to take up messing around with it as a hobby. It requires commitment, time, and and open mind, but fuck, I've just sorted out xmonad, I have my dotfiles syncing via git, and it's bloody amazing . Package management is bliss, and both pacman and apt shit all over homebrew (great as homebrew is), it's absurdly fast even on old hardware, it's free, it's got…

[deleted]

Re: PHP Addiction

#278

Post by wvenable »

ceol wrote: post #266
wvenable wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of his criticisms were completely valid Not even close. The author trolled through a bunch of other misinformed articles, copied some them verbatim mistakes and all. He doesn't know PHP and didn't research anything. > Which ones have been fixed in the current stable PHP? And which ones can be avoided "with sane design"? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4177516

In regard to his "objects compare higher..." point, I think he was referring to this: class MyClass {} class YourClass {} $myclass = new MyClass(); $yourclass = new YourClass(); var_dump($myclass > $yourclass); // false var_dump($myclass In regard to his "there's no pass-by-object identity..." point, there's no way to do this: class MyClass {} $myclass = MyClass; $anotherclass = $myclass(); I really don't have the en…

> In regard to his "objects compare higher..." point, I think he was referring to this:

That all comparisons between objects, except equals and strict equals, return false doesn't seem terribly unreasonable.

> In regard to his "there's no pass-by-object identity..." point, there's no way to do this:

    class MyClass {}
    $myclass = new ReflectionClass('MyClass');
    $anotherclass = $myclass;
    $instance = $anotherclass->newInstance();

    $myclass = 'MyClass';
    $instance = new $myclass();
> I really don't have the energy to refute the rest, but most of them are relatively subjective.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find too much fault with my criticisms of that article. The author doesn't even know common language terms like private/public/protected. And clearly he's never even seen C++.

Re: PHP Addiction

#279

Post by tikhonj »

flatline3 wrote: post #275
tikhonj wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, an ad hominem . Great. I did use OS X for Java development for a whole year. Moreover, I've had to use it a little bit recently at school and work, so I've played around with the newest versions. If that isn't enough experience to "understand" OS X, I'm not sure what is. Not much else to say here, because all you've done is act condescending and solely attack my perceived credibility. Because, obviously, if I…

> Because, obviously, if I didn't like OS X, I just didn't understand it! No, you just plain don't understand how to use it, so there wasn't really any room left to discuss its relative merits. Whether or not you liked it is irrelevant given that your judgements were based on an acquired understanding of Linux, and a terse at best understanding of Mac OS X. Let's just take your git example: > More recently, I tried t…

For Git, I just followed some examples I found online. I don't remember the exact procedure, but it didn't work. After around an hour of trying I just gave up. In fact, I found it just as difficult as trying to install Git on the OpenSolaris servers, which is saying quite a bit.

As for Java, I couldn't update despite using the Software Update menu. It worked on Windows, but OS X just hadn't gotten around to adding it. And, as is usually the case with Apple, there was no good way around it: since Apple hadn't update Java, I couldn't just install it myself. (Or, at least, there was no obvious way of doing this.)

I don't know exactly what my friend tried to install AucTeX and the rest of the LaTeX ecosystem, but he certainly did not find it easy. And this is somebody studying CS at a fairly good university: certainly not unintelligent or unfamiliar with tech.

Over all, your descriptions make OS X seem worse than Linux in the very areas it supposedly excels in!

Re: PHP Addiction

#280

Post by jaequery »

cletus wrote: post #121

Is it my imagination or is Marco the king of writing blog posts that are quick reactions to whatever is trending on HN? The message you should get from this post is that familiarity with one's tools easily trumps any aesthetic flaws (consistency in parameter ordering, naming conventions, etc are really nothing more than aesthetic flaws and not "deep" [1] as the author suggests. After all, human language is inconsiste…

php is like the mysql of databases. everyone hates you for using mysql, but everyone uses it.
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