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California bans sell-by dates

foodandwine.com

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Re: California bans sell-by dates

#131

Post by freedomben »

sandworm101 wrote: post #118
ryukoposting wrote: post #100

When my wife and I moved in together, we had a spat about what "sell by" dates actually meant. She had been throwing away loads of perfectly good food because she misunderstood the meaning of the sell-by date. I don't remember who taught me what they actually mean, but I was able to point her to a USDA site that showed the actual meaning. I'm pretty sure that was the only time I have ever been right when she and I di…

There is also much confusion about how food actually goes bad. There are some foods that absolutely should be avoided after a specific amount of time. But most will go bad somewhat randomly, mostly after but often before their sell/best by dates. Sometimes a jug of milk will be bad before it even arrives at a store. Sometimes mold will appear on fresh bread very suddenly. Food is more complicated than fixed dates. I…

Geez, that is aggravating. Do they really think that a completely unsealed cardboard box with holes in it is keeping out all the germs?

Sometimes I think we've really failed ourselves regarding basic biology and education requirements.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#132

Post by thomastjeffery »

tivert wrote: post #119
thomastjeffery wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bad if you're a search engine. It's not as bad if you're a human who is capable of parsing natural language semantics.

> It's bad if you're a search engine. It's not as bad if you're a human who is capable of parsing natural language semantics. I am a human capable of parsing natural language semantics, and "use by" is terrible. It's one of those completely unexplained commands you often find in instructions. Why should I use it by that date? If you're not a mindless drone who just unquestioningly follows instructions, the total lack…

I suppose that "use this before" and "this is best if used before" would be preferable.

The compromise here is to keep printing as short as possible. I think the greater issue is that these statements don't point to any trivially available authoritative definition.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#133

Post by debit-freak »

lupusreal wrote: post #125
guelo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those cheap plastic water bottles should be banned. They’re one of the greatest sources of micro plastics in our bodies. (Not to mention unstudied nano plastics)

They can't be anywhere even close to synthetic textiles.

Presumably you're not chewing on or eating from synthetic textiles. Meanwhile an enormous amount of food is shipped in, and even cooked in, plastic directly.

Of course you're right in the sense that when it comes to our general environment textiles produce far more environmental microplastics than most other sources. Particularly in our water systems.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#135

Post by strictnein »

MisterTea wrote: post #84
psunavy03 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beer is pasteurized or else full of live yeast cultures. It doesn't go "bad" per se in the sense that it will hurt you, but some beers taste bad beyond a certain point. Hoppy beers lose flavor in ~90 days or so after bottling. Mass-market beers "skunk" if they are exposed to light and the UV causes certain compounds to break down. Strong unpasteurized malty beers like porters and stouts can age for literally years in…

> Strong unpasteurized malty beers like porters and stouts can age for literally years in a cool dark place, and it smooths the flavors out. Had a coworker who made this phenomenon into a yearly gathering. We would bring beers of our choice, bury them in his back yard, then drink and grill/smoke meats. Next year he would dig up the previous years burial and we would try to bring the same beers with us. Then we all ga…

That sounds like a wonderful time. And amusingly, if he moves, the new owner may do some digging in their backyard and find a bunch of perfectly fine bottles of beer.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#136

Post by tivert »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #132
tivert wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's bad if you're a search engine. It's not as bad if you're a human who is capable of parsing natural language semantics. I am a human capable of parsing natural language semantics, and "use by" is terrible. It's one of those completely unexplained commands you often find in instructions. Why should I use it by that date? If you're not a mindless drone who just unquestioningly follows instructions, the total lack…

I suppose that "use this before" and "this is best if used before" would be preferable. The compromise here is to keep printing as short as possible. I think the greater issue is that these statements don't point to any trivially available authoritative definition.

"expires on", "not safe after", or "unsafe by" are not meaningfully longer. These aren't telegrams, they're not paying a penny a character. If they're willing to mandate the phrase "best if used by," they can mandate something clear than "use by" for safety issues.

They have no excuse.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#137

Post by ghaff »

sandworm101 wrote: post #118
ryukoposting wrote: post #100

When my wife and I moved in together, we had a spat about what "sell by" dates actually meant. She had been throwing away loads of perfectly good food because she misunderstood the meaning of the sell-by date. I don't remember who taught me what they actually mean, but I was able to point her to a USDA site that showed the actual meaning. I'm pretty sure that was the only time I have ever been right when she and I di…

There is also much confusion about how food actually goes bad. There are some foods that absolutely should be avoided after a specific amount of time. But most will go bad somewhat randomly, mostly after but often before their sell/best by dates. Sometimes a jug of milk will be bad before it even arrives at a store. Sometimes mold will appear on fresh bread very suddenly. Food is more complicated than fixed dates. I…

To be fair, we’ve recently been through a period when infection by physical contact was at least initially widely viewed as a thing even if elbow pumps and obsessive hand washing turned out to probably not be much of a deal. But there was certainly a year so there when if you touched something in a supermarket and put it back you were inviting lots of stink eye.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#138

Post by hbarka »

The headline would be better served if it said something to the effect that sell-by dates will be replaced with another date suggestion. Instead they chose this misleading headline. The whole thing is also a great example of politics pretending to advocate for the consumer. It’s really a ploy to keep the product sellable for as long as possible. Who gets to decide what best-by date means? If you really want to serve the customer put a made-on date and let me decide if this one-year old can of tomatoes is really something I want to use by day 366. Now, we’re still at a race to the bottom by a combination of gaming the best-by date and putting preservatives to the maximum allowable extent possible. Packaged food industry.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#139

Post by Dalewyn »

sureIy wrote: post #107
hentrep wrote: post #52

Here’s the actual USDA article describing the difference between “sell by, “use by”, and “best by” terms: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-... I don’t have time to find a source that supports this, but I understand that these dates also refer to the durability of the “food safe” container/packaging. Ever drink water from an unopened plastic bottle that has been stored for awhile? That taste…

I wish regulators stopped trying to be poetic and just use clear English. What's "best by?" You need to write "do not eat after." Nobody needs to be explained what that means.

"Clear English" is using as few words as possible.

Re: California bans sell-by dates

#140

Post by ghaff »

guelo wrote: post #101
hentrep wrote: post #52

Here’s the actual USDA article describing the difference between “sell by, “use by”, and “best by” terms: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-... I don’t have time to find a source that supports this, but I understand that these dates also refer to the durability of the “food safe” container/packaging. Ever drink water from an unopened plastic bottle that has been stored for awhile? That taste…

Those cheap plastic water bottles should be banned. They’re one of the greatest sources of micro plastics in our bodies. (Not to mention unstudied nano plastics)

I don’t personally normally buy bottled water but the alternative is probably to go back to glass which means higher consumer prices, increased fossil fuel consumption for transportation, etc.
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