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Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

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Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#71

Post by FireBeyond »

neilperetz wrote: post #49
mthoms wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neil, Thanks for participating. I have an honest question: How do you reconcile your post [0] claiming that Automattic controls all commercial aspects of the trademark with Matt's previous claim that "the most central piece of WordPress’s identity, its name, is now fully independent from any company" and that Automattic had "give[n] up control" of the marks? [1] [0] https://automattic.com/2024/10/02/wordpress-tradema…

I appreciate the question and it deserves a lengthier blog post reply that I will work on and share. In the interim, some brief thoughts on the topic that may be relevant. The WordPress community operates on an open source, non-commercial basis. The community decides what is included in each release of WordPress, how it's tested, what documentation accompanies it, etc. Because the WordPress Foundation, not Automattic…

> Because the WordPress Foundation, not Automattic, owns the WordPress trademarks for non-commercial use, Automattic has no control or veto of what code is stamped with the WordPress label.

Who are the board members of the WPF, and how active are they? My understanding is that there are three, and two are active.

Who is the CEO of Automattic? Let's not be naive and pretend that Automattic has "no control" over the WordPress Foundation when they share Presidents.

For one simple example, why did Matt Mullenweg, President of the independent, "no control from Automattic", WordPress Foundation disinvite WP Engine from a community event they sponsored, because they were in a legal dispute with Matt Mullenweg, President of entirely independent, arms-length Automattic?

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#72

Post by ValentineC »

mthoms wrote: post #69
neilperetz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi mthoms. The question you asked is: "how can The Foundation grant wordpress.org a license if the licence granted to Automattic is exclusive? Wordpress.org as you know, is not a non-profit." One need not be a non-profit corporation to engage in non-commercial use. Distributing open source software at no charge is not a commercial activity. An analogy might be you or I volunteering at a community event. We are indivi…

Thanks Neil. I disagree strongly about dot org being non-commercial. Jetpack and Akismet (Automattic commercial products) have been "featured" plugins since time immemorial. That means they show up ahead of 60,000 other plugins, every time. There is massive commercial benefit to that. Just one more question if you don't mind - Where does this distinction between commercial and non-commercial use come from? The tradem…

> Where does this distinction between commercial and non-commercial use come from? The trademark assignment does not appear to make any such distinction: "..an exclusive, fully-paid, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, sublicensable right and license to use and otherwise exploit the trademarks...".

Not the parent commenter, but I'm guessing it comes from the usage part after:

> in connection with the hosting of blogs and web sites that utilize any version or component of the WordPress open source publishing platform product or open source successor of any of the foregoing on or in connection with www.wordpress.com and www.wordpress.tv (each and collectively, together with any subdomains of any of the foregoing, "Automatic Sites"), providing support for the Automatic Sites, and/or substantially similar uses in connection with the Automatic Sites.

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#73

Post by FireBeyond »

neilperetz wrote: post #50
NeonNautilus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Matt really send you here without even explaining what the conversation was about? And then you didn't even bother to read it for yourself? The article you wrote claims "The Foundation also licensed the name WordPress to the non-profit WordPress.org, which runs a website that facilitates access to WordPress-related software." Matt in his comment claims "All the information in the links you shared is totally wrong…

I believe there was a typo in the post. If you read this thread you'll see a note below from Matt yesterday that the post was corrected.

"Asbolutely" is a typo.

Don't white wash a completely inaccurate and misleading statement as a typing error - that treats people like fools.

ESPECIALLY since this is one of DOZENS of recently citable instances where Matt refers to WP.org, Automattic, and the Foundation almost interchangably.

"Rushing to fix years of (intentionally/conveniently) muddy waters on org structures" is not "a typo in the past" - this is insulting to your audience.

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#74

Post by pluginvulns »

neilperetz wrote: post #49
mthoms wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neil, Thanks for participating. I have an honest question: How do you reconcile your post [0] claiming that Automattic controls all commercial aspects of the trademark with Matt's previous claim that "the most central piece of WordPress’s identity, its name, is now fully independent from any company" and that Automattic had "give[n] up control" of the marks? [1] [0] https://automattic.com/2024/10/02/wordpress-tradema…

I appreciate the question and it deserves a lengthier blog post reply that I will work on and share. In the interim, some brief thoughts on the topic that may be relevant. The WordPress community operates on an open source, non-commercial basis. The community decides what is included in each release of WordPress, how it's tested, what documentation accompanies it, etc. Because the WordPress Foundation, not Automattic…

It appears you do not know what is going on with WordPress.

The person who ultimately controls what is included in a release of WordPress is the Release Lead. They are an employee of Automattic. We compiled a list of Release Leads going back to 2019: https://www.pluginvulnerabilities.com/2024/10/10/automattics...

It has been Matt Mullenweg 12 of 15 times. The other Release Leads were Josepha Haden Chomphosy and Matías Ventura, who were Automattic employees at the time.

So Automattic obviously does have control and a veto.

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#75

Post by mthoms »

ValentineC wrote: post #72
mthoms wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks Neil. I disagree strongly about dot org being non-commercial. Jetpack and Akismet (Automattic commercial products) have been "featured" plugins since time immemorial. That means they show up ahead of 60,000 other plugins, every time. There is massive commercial benefit to that. Just one more question if you don't mind - Where does this distinction between commercial and non-commercial use come from? The tradem…

> Where does this distinction between commercial and non-commercial use come from? The trademark assignment does not appear to make any such distinction: "..an exclusive, fully-paid, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, sublicensable right and license to use and otherwise exploit the trademarks...". Not the parent commenter, but I'm guessing it comes from the usage part after: > in connection with the hos…

Right, but none of that says anything to the effect of "excluding non-commercial use". It's a blanket assignment for "hosting of blogs and web sites that utilize any version or component of the WordPress open source publishing platform product or open source successor..."

That means Automattic's rights ares not restricted in any way despite their claims that The Foundation has exclusive non-commercial rights and Automattic does not.

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#77

Post by [deleted] »

neilperetz wrote: post #37
DonnieBurger wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take that as a "no." unless proven otherwise.

While I love pronouns, they can lead to misunderstandings if not carefully defined. Above it was written "I'll take that as a 'no'". Could you explain what "that" refers to in your statement. I am asking because, lacking a clear definition of the question, I cannot say whether the answer is Yes, No, or something else.

[deleted]

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#78

Post by pwillia7 »

neilperetz wrote: post #37
DonnieBurger wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take that as a "no." unless proven otherwise.

While I love pronouns, they can lead to misunderstandings if not carefully defined. Above it was written "I'll take that as a 'no'". Could you explain what "that" refers to in your statement. I am asking because, lacking a clear definition of the question, I cannot say whether the answer is Yes, No, or something else.

Ironic, this is the same confusion WP users are having over a word that is not a pronoun -- WordPress

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#79

Post by pwillia7 »

neilperetz wrote: post #47
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"that" was referring to your reply to their straightforward yes/no question being anything but.

So you interpret "is there any part of the Wordpress cluster of organizations that do not ultimately answer to Matt?" as being a YES or NO question? I interpret it as a request for information about what is Matt's role in the ecosystem and I was gathering information to share about that. However, if you are not interested in factual information, the answer is: YES, there are various parts of the the Wordpress cluster…

While I love the use of passive aggressive language, in this case, as it was originally written, "However, if you are not interested in factual information, the answer is: YES" causes some globule of confusion to the primary reader --

Is this to imply that the answer Yes to the question about Matt's control over the organizations named WordPress is _not_ in fact factual?

Dictated not read.

YMHAOS

Re: Mary Hubbard New Executive Director of Wordpress.org

#80

Post by pwillia7 »

neilperetz wrote: post #54
LordAtlas wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think an attorney of all people would be more careful with their words, especially with terms like "non-profit".

Sorry that even attorneys can have typos.

Which word was meant to be used instead of non-profit here?
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