Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#1

Post by wkyleg » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 8:31 PM UTC

It seems that when implemented correctly, running full-stack Elixir can greatly simplify complicated distributed systems. In-memory storage can replace a cache, and the architecture itself can replace a message queue. Horizontal or even vertical scaling can replace complicated scaling mechanisms. There are plenty of advantages to running data pipelines in parallel too.

There's also a huge trend now away from managed cloud services (ZIRP), and it seems like Elixir with a database on the same machine or network could deliver great performance and scalability.

So why don't more people use Elixir? I've read some complaints about the lack of static types or not having as many developers. But if those were the only constraints, one would think that they could be overcome, or some service could just greatly simplify Elixir deployments.

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#2

Post by johnklos » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 9:14 PM UTC

Got me. Running Akkoma on Elixir is a piece of cake, relatively speaking. Trying to run Mastodon on Ruby by simply using the latest version of the required Ruby components hasn't worked for me, ever.

The idea that we'd need to keep a snapshot of modules from a specific date in order to run certain software is ridiculous, and the idea of running it in a container like Docker is just giving in to bad practices. Too often it means things are too fragile to update when there are security issues.

I haven't seen this happen with Elixir. What do they do better / differently from Ruby that updating doesn't cause the house of cards to come crashing down?

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#3

Post by sergiotapia » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 9:35 PM UTC

It's a wonderful language. Unfortunately the only places I've been able to use it and get paid were places where I ultimately had the decision making ability of the tech stack.

Why isn't it used? It's niche and betting on such a small community is risky for the majority of companies. Why use Elixir when you could hire 10 engineers to pump out javascript. That's the mentality of most.

Hiring for elixir was great, it self selected people who wrote code as their craft. You kind of have to be curious about code to even be aware of Elixir, know how to write elixir. These types of devs would pick it up really quickly because the language is just so damn ergonomic.

I'm using Elixir now, and I wake up so happy that I get paid to do this. I am really blessed.

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#4

Post by wkyleg » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 9:40 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #3

It's a wonderful language. Unfortunately the only places I've been able to use it and get paid were places where I ultimately had the decision making ability of the tech stack. Why isn't it used? It's niche and betting on such a small community is risky for the majority of companies. Why use Elixir when you could hire 10 engineers to pump out javascript. That's the mentality of most. Hiring for elixir was great, it s…

It's funny I think I remember explicitly reading this argument somewhere, that startups need to meet headcount as a metric for VC funding so they will end up picking "worse" tech for that reason.

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#5

Post by wkyleg » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 9:41 PM UTC

johnklos wrote: post #2

Got me. Running Akkoma on Elixir is a piece of cake, relatively speaking. Trying to run Mastodon on Ruby by simply using the latest version of the required Ruby components hasn't worked for me, ever. The idea that we'd need to keep a snapshot of modules from a specific date in order to run certain software is ridiculous, and the idea of running it in a container like Docker is just giving in to bad practices. Too oft…

Yes! That's a good point

Docker is another technology that is sort of ridiculous from this perspective. Deploying an entire OS just to make dealing with dependencies easier

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#6

Post by yen223 » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 10:41 PM UTC

The simple reason is that Elixir is competing in the backend web-services space, which is a very crowded space with many equally-compelling alternatives.

As someone who likes working with off-meta languages, it's clear that the default state for any new language is to die an early death. The fact that Elixir hasn't died is testament to its strengths.

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#7

Post by sgarland » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 10:59 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #3

It's a wonderful language. Unfortunately the only places I've been able to use it and get paid were places where I ultimately had the decision making ability of the tech stack. Why isn't it used? It's niche and betting on such a small community is risky for the majority of companies. Why use Elixir when you could hire 10 engineers to pump out javascript. That's the mentality of most. Hiring for elixir was great, it s…

> it self selected people who wrote code as their craft

I’ve often thought that would be true for niche languages. I interviewed at a fintech whose backend is written in Haskell, and definitely got that vibe from the interviewers.

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#8

Post by madamelic » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 11:48 PM UTC

Since this thread is going to be bait to more experienced Elixir devs, can someone tell me books, blogs, etc that you like that discuss performance in Elixir?

I am working on an Elixir project that in no circumstance should be taxing but it's falling over miserably at like 100 - 200 events per minute. The detail is it is distributed-ish IoT. I didn't write it, the person(s) who did write it are gone, and no one else writes Elixir. I've gotten some good gains already but I'd like to squeeze the 80 - 90% of juice I think I can get before resorting to beefier hardware.

I've gotten into instrumenting and measuring it and I have some ideas but I'd love to hear others point me to other ideas. The real problem is that the hardware is miserably underpowered and it is real-time, by that I mean I can't defer, schedule for later, or de-prioritize anything.

---

To actually contribute, I really like Elixir. I am not yet sure why I would advocate for it over something more 'simple' like nodejs (My background is, accidentally, Javascript World) but it's certainly a very nice language to write in. It feels magical but not too magical where you get scared it's trapping you into its web.

Before anyone jumps too much on me for it, I gauge "simplicity" by how many people can I hire to write it. You can barely swing a cat without hitting 3 competent Javascript developers. I tried for many years to hire another golang dev so I could write it professionally, I only encountered a few despite having been in most interviews my employers would do. With that said, it may just be that the Venn diagram between "writes Javascript" and "writes golang" is small.

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#9

Post by throwaway81523 » Wed, Oct 09, 2024, 11:59 PM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #8

Since this thread is going to be bait to more experienced Elixir devs, can someone tell me books, blogs, etc that you like that discuss performance in Elixir? I am working on an Elixir project that in no circumstance should be taxing but it's falling over miserably at like 100 - 200 events per minute. The detail is it is distributed-ish IoT. I didn't write it, the person(s) who did write it are gone, and no one else…

Disclaimer: I've written Erlang but not Elixir. From what I can tell the issues are similar though. I'd say look at Fred Hebert's Erlang blog (ferd.ca) and "Erlang in Anger" for some tuning hints. Erlang has been around a lot longer and its devs have gotten more into nitty gritty issues, it seems to me.

Re: Ask HN: Why Isn't Elixir More Popular?

#10

Post by madamelic » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 12:00 AM UTC

throwaway81523 wrote: post #9

madamelic wrote: post #8

Since this thread is going to be bait to more experienced Elixir devs, can someone tell me books, blogs, etc that you like that discuss performance in Elixir? I am working on an Elixir project that in no circumstance should be taxing but it's falling over miserably at like 100 - 200 events per minute. The detail is it is distributed-ish IoT. I didn't write it, the person(s) who did write it are gone, and no one else…

Disclaimer: I've written Erlang but not Elixir. From what I can tell the issues are similar though. I'd say look at Fred Hebert's Erlang blog (ferd.ca) and "Erlang in Anger" for some tuning hints. Erlang has been around a lot longer and its devs have gotten more into nitty gritty issues, it seems to me.

Thanks! That is a helpful tip in general I should remember: search for Erlang, not Elixir ;)