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Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

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Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#391

Post by AtlasBarfed »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #342

definitely my experience dealing with them at F500s. Indian mafia running the IT org, and a PITA to get things out of them. personal favorite was that someone from network support ran a script that changed ownership of all of the docker containers and associated configs, outputs, and logs to root. we had pretty clear proof in the logs that a Cog support tech did it, and basically had to escalate to the CTO and get hi…

The bean counters sure didn't care, this was blatantly obvious even two decades ago.

I don't fault the outsourcing companies it's nothing different than what occurs with American consulting outsourcing before offshoring: get the deal signed, get the responsibilities transferred, and milk the cow.

The anti nerd bias of american culture means that IT is less respected than even blue collar workers by management.

The higher salaries of IT are begrudgingly given. I predict over the next two decades they will collapse to what typical engineers are paid: as in it's more lucrative to be a plumber

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#392

Post by skynr »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #342

definitely my experience dealing with them at F500s. Indian mafia running the IT org, and a PITA to get things out of them. personal favorite was that someone from network support ran a script that changed ownership of all of the docker containers and associated configs, outputs, and logs to root. we had pretty clear proof in the logs that a Cog support tech did it, and basically had to escalate to the CTO and get hi…

We have a high proportion of onshore on-site Indian employees who are absolutely awesome. However they've gone through the local company's recruitment process so will have been selected for fit.

The experience with outsourced resources is significantly different.

I build a good rapport with one who talked me through the politics and power plays behind the scenes at their midsize outsourcing arm. Just very different social values to Western orgs. Incredibly hierarchical with no value given to autonomy or independence. Those who want to do well and try really hard frequently get their helmets dented by over zealous managers.

Also experienced - ex offshore very often have incredible cvs until you interview and there's no actual experience. Polling the above contact he mentioned that for some offshore orgs promotion is literally time in role, not competency based.

My experience, your mileage may vary, and I reiterate those I've worked with on-site have been awesome, generous, funny and very supportive people.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#393

Post by bubblethink »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #48

My guess would be that a lot of non-Indians at these companies are rejected on the basis of "vibes"; which is slightly different from racism as I explain below, although it probably ends up having the same net effect as overt racism. As an Indian, I've observed that collectivism and subservience towards authority figures are taught as virtues; this obviously makes it quite easy for employers to extract unreasonable d…

>My guess would be that a lot of non-Indians at these companies are rejected on the basis of "vibes"

Are you sure it's not just money ? You can pay Indians on H1B less and keep them tied to you. At a place like Cognizant, you aren't trying to get the best talent. You want the cheapest talent that gets the job done.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#394

Post by kylehotchkiss »

jl6 wrote: post #295

The worst HR case I ever got involved in was a semi-onshore (Indian) development team who couldn't deal with having a female (Indian) tech lead. She was eminently qualified for the role, but they would attempt to undermine her at every turn, speak over her, hold meetings without her, always going over her head... Caste did not appear to be a factor; it seemed to be good old fashioned sexism.

Caste is not the driving factor in Indian culture.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#395

Post by kylehotchkiss »

wslh wrote: post #299
dartharva wrote: post #280

The waitlist for Indians to get a green card (i.e. second-class citizenship) is 134 years currently. By the end of this decade, it will touch 200. No regular Indian going on a work visa to the US currently has any significant scope of ever being recognized a citizen. Think of that what you will, but the list of incentives an Indian has to bother integrating into American society is rather short.

Genuinely asking as someone not deeply familiar with the complexities of Indian culture: India now has the largest population in the world, is the biggest democracy, and has significant potential for growth (e.g. reducing poverty). At the same time, we see Indian leaders in top positions in major U.S. companies, like the CEOs of Google (1st gen) and Microsoft (2nd gen). How do these factors all connect? What drives t…

The "upward trajectory" we're all so familiar with is not (yet) as big a part of their culture yet. (I believe this is changing... the chronically online young generation seem to be absorbing a lot more of international culture than their ancestors). The regulatory environment for any business is an absolute nightmare of hostile patchwork policies different in every city and state. When foreign companies come in, the government babus want to yell Imperialism! at every turn, which leads to 51/49 ventures being the way to go, which are overly bureaucratic.

It brings me hope to see shark tank getting popular there. Not to say the hosts or the contestants have been as honest as they should be, but it shows a big shift in mindset since India's 80s/90s economic policies

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#396

Post by dotnet00 »

mr90210 wrote: post #238

I am going to disclose my own bias here: I tend to look for multicultural teams and somewhat evenly distributed. As an African so far I have worked and learnt a lot from a Brazilian-Japanese, Bulgarian, Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian, Israeli, Russian, English, Indian, Pakistani, German, Argentinian, and a Polish. Some of which I have the pleasure to call friend.

Yep, those kinds of teams are the most fun to be in.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#397

Post by horns4lyfe »

bushido wrote: post #277

The comments on this story are very interesting - not in the good way. This rhetoric is very similar to previous ones that existed in over the decades like Jewish/Polish/Chinese/etc people only doing business with other people of their groups. Or democrats/republicans in deep blue/red states sticking with their own. Back to the topic: I know a lot of 2nd, 3rd generation Indians who definitely do not fit the stereotyp…

None of this will matter when the entirety of IT and software dev becomes an ethnic enclave for Indians, while being told that there’s just not enough local talent. It’s going to happen, just a matter of time, and we’ll all suffer for it.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#398

Post by kylehotchkiss »

p_l wrote: post #275
tock wrote: post #212

It's weird how racism against Indians online is so normalised. I see the same on reddit too.

Thank WiPro/Infosys/Tata/Cognizant/HCL and everyone who apes their practices. The end result is that you see a mention of "Bangalore" and you get immediate shivers because it doesn't matter how nice and good as a person the people you are forced to work with are, if the entire qualification you can discern is that they are statistically expected to speak english, and their work environment and supervisors enforce cer…

But things a LOT of us here use often and might even enjoy are built in Banaglore too, and it's a shame it doesn't get more publicity. Target has a fairly massive office over there working on their tech (plz correct me if I'm wrong) https://india.target.com

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#399

Post by Izkata »

swasheck wrote: post #205
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually you'll find that this happens a lot. Search up expat communities, for example. They don't necessarily "impose their culture and exclude locals", but they are for and by the expats from a certain country. Seeking "your" people when living/working abroad, or when working in a diverse workspace, is pretty normal and happens everywhere. It's usually harmless though.

i’m not sure that’s the point though. i think the point is lost in op layering restaurants and jokes and such into their narrative. i think the actual point and concern is how being “out-group” affects their employment due to what they perceive as deliberate exclusion.

Yes, everyone is ignoring the preface to that part:

> Indians being friendly with each other and stone cold with the rest.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#400

Post by sien »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #343
Eumenes wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Indians migrating to the US via h1b visas are not coming from the slums or ghettoes. Higher education to foreigners in the US is essentially an immigration scheme - they pay $60-$100k (+living expenses) for a useless graduate degree which only the rich can afford, then get funneled into consulting firms like Cognizant/Infosys on OPT/EAD visas before picking up their h1b for ~ 6 years. This pretty much gets you in…

> the recruiting/HR department no longer considered Asians of any ethnicity a minority and lumped them in with white males. there was, IIRC, an infamous spat at a FAANG about that

It's so weird.

Why didn't big tech companies fight tooth and nail to get Asian recognised as a minority so they could then turn around and say look 'We employ minorities at a rate way higher than other companies' ?

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