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PHP Addiction

marco.org

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Re: PHP Addiction

#231

Post by wvenable »

ceol wrote: post #210
maratd wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wrote a well thought out response. I owe you a response in kind. People have a tendency to overrate their rational capacity to reason out a viable decision. While you listed a few solid critiques, the situation is infinitely more complex. And by infinitely , I do mean exactly that. As in, beyond your capacity to reason it out. In the end, the only right decision is a decision which withstands the test of time. Bo…

The first half of your post is basically a long-winded appeal to popularity. Yes, most people on the web use PHP and Apache. Most people on the web also need nothing more than a WordPress installation and their online needs are met. Does that mean WordPress is the best tool out there? You should stop confusing popularity with quality, because the two rarely overlap. > C10K is not a problem and never was. Somebody bet…

> Most of his criticisms were completely valid

Not even close. The author trolled through a bunch of other misinformed articles, copied some them verbatim mistakes and all. He doesn't know PHP and didn't research anything.

> Which ones have been fixed in the current stable PHP? And which ones can be avoided "with sane design"?

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4177516

Re: PHP Addiction

#232

Post by torrenegra »

I am always surprised with the level of argumentation in reference to programming languages. From my perspective, good development paterns and arquitecture are WAY more important than the language. It's similar to writing poetry or novels: picking one language over another won't make you a great writer automatically. Can you imagine Cervantes and Shakespeare arguing whether Spanish or English was better? What's most important is what you do with the words of the language, and not the language itself.

Re: PHP Addiction

#233

Post by fromhet »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #187
cletus wrote: post #121

Is it my imagination or is Marco the king of writing blog posts that are quick reactions to whatever is trending on HN? The message you should get from this post is that familiarity with one's tools easily trumps any aesthetic flaws (consistency in parameter ordering, naming conventions, etc are really nothing more than aesthetic flaws and not "deep" [1] as the author suggests. After all, human language is inconsiste…

>Desktop Linux is the reason people don't use Linux on the desktop. I'm sorry but it's truly awful and probably won't ever get better. In the absence of product direction you have us geeks making everything configurable Have you tried Unity or G-S lately? I'm not as willing to argue G-S has as clear a direction as Unity, but they both ship with a very limited amount of configurability and they're both insanely easy t…

This is true.

Anecdote: I've used Ubuntu for a long time, but due to some nonfree applications dependence on mac/win I've gotten myself a apple laptop. It's mostly the same, I use a browser, terminal, vim and a thousand silly apps but they are about the same amount of config-time.

The biggest difference is that Ubuntu ships with APT and a lot of tools that are good for a hacker, but it's not to hard to get equivalents on osx.

Summary: Mac OS and Ubuntu are more on par in ease to use than I could have believed before I tried.

Re: PHP Addiction

#235

Post by mistercow »

crazygringo wrote: post #224
mistercow wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is, no, nothing else has. Node.js is awesome and fun, but far harder to set up for basic webpage serving. Python is awesome, but also has a huge learning curve to learn how to serve basic webpages with. And... I can't think of anything else. Perl? ASP? Java is a huge pain to set up and maintain. The crazy thing is that all of that could change with a simple project that does (or whatever) style templatin…

I think you're right, I just made the same comment in this thread. That could really be the key to getting, say Node.js to turn completely mainstream.

What I'd like to do is make a project specifically for CoffeeScript (and maybe also JavaScript) which would run with minimal configuration under several CommonJS supporting environments like v8cgi and Node. The conversion from templating is extremely simple, and beyond that, it's simply a matter of pasting on some boiler plate to set up global variables. I honestly think that the reason it hasn't been done is that it is so easy to implement that people feel it must not be worthwhile.

Re: PHP Addiction

#236

Post by wvenable »

gojomo wrote: post #190

Perhaps someone should make 'PYP', a Python that's easy for PHP programmers. Like PHP, .PYP files would be templates with no limits on mixing presentation and logic. The filesystem hierarchy provides the default URL-routing. But, you get the regularity/power/compactness of Python wherever you want it. (Perhaps, every line in a .PYP file beginning with '\' is meaningfully-indented Python.) If you ever want to hijack a…

I think it missed the point. I seriously doubt Marco is mixing presentation and logic, using the file system for routing, etc.

Re: PHP Addiction

#237

Post by dools »

wvenable wrote: post #167
sho_hn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Two thirds of that list are actually incorrect. Got a link to a good rebuttal?

Anthony Ferrara did a rebuttal here: http://blog.ircmaxell.com/2012/04/php-sucks-but-i-like-it.ht... Not a good rebuttal but I've done my own here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4177516

That rebuttal is fantastic. I never actually got through the entire "fractal" article - having read your rebuttal just now I can say I'm glad I didn't waste my time, thanks :)

Re: PHP Addiction

#238

Post by wvenable »

runjake wrote: post #29

How do PHP people handle templating simply? Edit: Perhaps I worded my question wrong. How do PHP programmers try and keep to DRY (ala layouts and view templates)?

Pretty much every PHP framework is MVC. Sometimes the view is just a separate PHP file and sometimes it's some kind of template language.

Re: PHP Addiction

#239

Post by mhitza »

runjake wrote: post #29

How do PHP people handle templating simply? Edit: Perhaps I worded my question wrong. How do PHP programmers try and keep to DRY (ala layouts and view templates)?

Plain PHP with framework helpers, or Twig.

Re: PHP Addiction

#240

Post by jrockway »

samspot wrote: post #225
antihero wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desktop Linux is actually fucking fantastic if you are prepared to take up messing around with it as a hobby. It requires commitment, time, and and open mind, but fuck, I've just sorted out xmonad, I have my dotfiles syncing via git, and it's bloody amazing . Package management is bliss, and both pacman and apt shit all over homebrew (great as homebrew is), it's absurdly fast even on old hardware, it's free, it's got…

"Linux is only free if your time is worthless" Had to do it. I like linux a lot, but It doesn't make the quote false.

OS X is only $39 if your time is worthless.

(See what I did there? Linux, OS X, and Windows all enable infinite tweaking. No setup will ever be perfect, and making it closer to perfect takes time. If all you want is a web browser, that's a click away in every major OS.)

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