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Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

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Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#51

Post by BenjiWiebe »

jart wrote: post #47
danielfoster wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Wordpress open source? WPE is under no obligation to contribute source code or money. If WP is unhappy with the outcome, they should have released their product under a different license.

How would you feel about Google if they used things like Linux and never contributed anything to open source? As the most profitable entity in the WordPress space, WPE has a duty to give something back. What Matt is asking for isn't unreasonable.

I would hope Google would help out, but I would also realize that it's ultimately their own choice if the license allows them to use it without donating time/money.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#52

Post by oliwarner »

I'm generally behind open source companies wanting to stop commercial freeloaders, but putting this fight in front of your users seems unhinged.

They need to take a step back. Again, I think they probably do have a trademark case, and they can set whatever rules they like for accessing their plugin repo, but this drama isn't something users appreciate.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#53

Post by FireBeyond »

jart wrote: post #41
unstyledcontent wrote: post #23

Wow, might be time to fork the project.

WPE is the most profitable business in the WordPress space, and they haven't changed a single line of code in WordPress or so much as contributed a dime. So if you're eager to volunteer to be their free labor, be my guest.

That is absolutely and factually incorrect.

Several of the most popular plugins are maintained by WPEngine.

WPEngine donates/sponsors hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to WordPress community events. Indeed, the convention where Matt went "nuclear" was sponsored by WPE to the tune of $75,000 (and despite these all being supposedly independent entities, somehow WPE was banned from attending by the Foundation. No refund, though).

> So if you're eager to volunteer to be their free labor, be my guest.

Matt is demanding that WPE provide his for-profit company, Automattic, free labor, to be directed as Automattic see fit. Not the Foundation, not the open source project.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#54

Post by FireBeyond »

joshtynjala wrote: post #44
0xy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no dog in this race, but the behavior does seem ill-advised even if you look at it through a pure legal lens. WP Engine's lawyers must be having a field day with this stuff. Is he just totally ignoring his own lawyers? He has to be, because no lawyer who charges more than $20 an hour would tell him any of this is advisable.

He's appeared in several of related threads here on HN. He is always asked about his lawyers, and he repeatedly claims that they're cool with his behavior.

> He is always asked about his lawyers, and he repeatedly claims that they're cool with his behavior.

Even there he's inconsistent. He spent a day or so talking about how his lawyer said "If you're in the right, talk all you like!", then a few days after that made an announcement about how he'd retained a lawyer just that day.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#55

Post by FireBeyond »

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #34
moomin wrote: post #14

What is going on here? I understand that open source companies have a free rider problem, and will naturally take steps to deal with that, but some of the recent activities seem… strange. I’m thinking part of the problem is that the software itself is GPL and so is it’s ecosystem, which means that the standard next step of changing the license (followed by an inevitable fork) is infeasible.

It's not that at all. Matt wants money to flow to his commercial entity, or if they donate developers to the project, he still gets to see everything about their books. It's an invasive agreement designed to give his commercial entity a competitive advantage.

> It's an invasive agreement designed to give his commercial entity a competitive advantage.

Given how much they sunk into the boat anchor that is Tumblr, and how well Tumblr is doing right now, I'm not surprised they need any competitive advantage they can get.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#56

Post by egil »

jart wrote: post #47
danielfoster wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Wordpress open source? WPE is under no obligation to contribute source code or money. If WP is unhappy with the outcome, they should have released their product under a different license.

How would you feel about Google if they used things like Linux and never contributed anything to open source? As the most profitable entity in the WordPress space, WPE has a duty to give something back. What Matt is asking for isn't unreasonable.

When Google contribute to open source, they often do it to scratch their own itch. That's how most open source organizations works. What Automattic wants from WPE as laid outs in their term sheet is to dictate what WPE contributes and audit their accounting. Not exactly on the same playing field as other corporate contributions to open source projects. Not to mention the non-forking clause.

Maybe setting up a proper independent governance of the WordPress project would encourage more independent contributions.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#57

Post by legitster »

joshtynjala wrote: post #44
0xy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no dog in this race, but the behavior does seem ill-advised even if you look at it through a pure legal lens. WP Engine's lawyers must be having a field day with this stuff. Is he just totally ignoring his own lawyers? He has to be, because no lawyer who charges more than $20 an hour would tell him any of this is advisable.

He's appeared in several of related threads here on HN. He is always asked about his lawyers, and he repeatedly claims that they're cool with his behavior.

Someone claiming to be his lawyer popped into one of the threads and then played dumb about a blog post he supposedly wrote.

Hilariously bad look all around.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#58

Post by LordAtlas »

JimDabell wrote: post #19

There’s a thread on X here with screenshots of the WordPress Slack, where Mullenweg seems deliberately vague when people ask him what counts as “affiliated in any way”. It seems like he wants to spread Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt about what can get you banned. People who have been asking him awkward questions in the Slack have started to get banned from there as well. https://x.com/javiercasares/status/1843963052183…

He's not the only Wordpress contributor banned from Slack for asking questions about the checkbox:

* https://x.com/xwolf/status/1842548019289338346

* https://x.com/rmccue/status/1843967630585311595

* https://x.com/jonoalderson/status/1843985559745921046

* https://x.com/LinuxJedi/status/1843966957495939093

And from Javier's thread, Matt is gaslighting people by telling them to consult attorneys to decide the meaning of "affiliated" in a checkbox HE introduced.

Is paying for WPEngine hosting "affiliated"? https://x.com/LucP/status/1843926970763227255

Can we now agree that Matt has lost his marbles and his ego is leading him to burn the entire Wordpress ecosystem down? These are megalomaniacal and dictatorial actions.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#59

Post by Kye »

LordAtlas wrote: post #58
JimDabell wrote: post #19

There’s a thread on X here with screenshots of the WordPress Slack, where Mullenweg seems deliberately vague when people ask him what counts as “affiliated in any way”. It seems like he wants to spread Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt about what can get you banned. People who have been asking him awkward questions in the Slack have started to get banned from there as well. https://x.com/javiercasares/status/1843963052183…

He's not the only Wordpress contributor banned from Slack for asking questions about the checkbox: * https://x.com/xwolf/status/1842548019289338346 * https://x.com/rmccue/status/1843967630585311595 * https://x.com/jonoalderson/status/1843985559745921046 * https://x.com/LinuxJedi/status/1843966957495939093 And from Javier's thread, Matt is gaslighting people by telling them to consult attorneys to decide the meaning o…

A long-time WordPress pro friend got booted from the plugin team this morning.
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