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Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

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Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#181

Post by ethbr1 »

zo1 wrote: post #99
skywhopper wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a delusional and hateful lie.

Have you been on the receiving end of DEI? The same way a minority has been on the receiving end of racism? We can all wax lyrical and paint pretty pictures about the noble goals of DEI. But till we get an equal and fair world, the ugly picture is that DEI starts by dividing the pie into smaller parts, and taking from one to give to another, instead of making the pie bigger for everyone. And if history is anything to…

The biggest problem with DEI policies in practice was that companies entrusted HR to implement them.

HR at most companies doesn't do nuance or complexity.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#182

Post by j45 »

the_gorilla wrote: post #157
j45 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEI is more about getting equally qualified candidates to the table that are ignored or missed. Yes that makes it more competitive. Or less-competitive at an advantage to some and both others if it stayed the same way.

> DEI is more about getting equally qualified candidates to the table that are ignored or missed. This is the first time I've heard that. The normal party line is that, yes, they're worse at the job but it's because they never got the opportunity to learn. You can observe in colleges that DEI-appointed students do massively worse overall despite probably being given even more leeway than normal students.

Wow, ok. So that kind of idea is really completely new, so it can't be valid?

I think it's pretty easy to go learn the spectrum of DEI.

The world is generally run with gatekeeping, which means withholding access to opportunity to improve one's life to a selected group for a long time.

It's possible that your country may codify gatekeeping and privilege, and the only way they may know how is to do the same thing in the opposite way.

It might not be a good way of holding space for qualified candidates to get to the same table, or even, not allowing an average person to "get a chance" to fail upwards except if you're from one background.

The relevance of DEI shouldn't be held exclusively with its implementation at any given time, as long as it's improving. Kind of like software, maybe.

I'm not sure where your observation is based on - happy to learn and read from any studies though beyond anecdotal differences.

It would be like generalizing that lots of rich kids end up doing nothing as well after their parents pay for their way into and school. Doesn't make it true as a generalization of everyone though.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#183

Post by eru »

ewuhic wrote: post #54

How to fight back when you see this happening at line management level, but not yet proliferated to upper management? Indian product owner taking mostly to Indian peer developers, bypassing normal communication channels. Indians being friendly with each other and stone cold with the rest. Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restauran…

> How to fight back when you see this happening at line management level, but not yet proliferated to upper management?

Vote with your feet, if you don't like it?

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#184

Post by Cthulhu_ »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #95
bravetraveler wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a casual observer, their culture seems to include considerable classism; to the degree that 'where are you from?' appears to be an extremely common and loaded question [saved for the locals] . I only recognize it because it exists in mine, not a judgement.

Don't tiptoe around the topic. By class you mean caste. As a white guy who has worked in tech for 25+ years and has made many Indian friends, I continue to be astounded by how fixated many (obviously not all) of them are on caste. In particular, how much time and effort gets spent trying to suss out each others' caste by asking questions like you noted. Every time we get a new Indian team member and the existing ones…

I hope that the caste system is on its way out though, although for that to really happen there need to be long-term societal reforms, just like with classism in e.g. Europe. Especially in the UK, working/middle/upper class is still very much a thing.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#185

Post by eru »

amazinteresting wrote: post #60
ewuhic wrote: post #54

How to fight back when you see this happening at line management level, but not yet proliferated to upper management? Indian product owner taking mostly to Indian peer developers, bypassing normal communication channels. Indians being friendly with each other and stone cold with the rest. Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restauran…

Best course of action is symmetrical response.

What makes you think so?

Usually, the sanest recourse in these kinds of situations is to cut your losses and vote with your feet.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#186

Post by quadrifoliate »

xienze wrote: post #159
quadrifoliate wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restaurants during lunch break, so now most of the colleagues follow suit, how to stop it all? Are you seriously asking how to "fight back" on Indians going to restaurants and joking with each other? As an Indian in a flyover state who has been routinely excluded from golfing events, and had my d…

> Are you seriously asking how to "fight back" on Indians going to restaurants and joking with each other? Yes? Or is it just a problem when white people choose to associate with one another at work?

I am saying that neither is a problem. We all have to break into social groups at work and even before that (ever watch "Mean Girls"?). This is not a problem specific to any group of people; and OP's fixation is unnecessary in my opinion.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#187

Post by thinkingtoilet »

ewuhic wrote: post #54

How to fight back when you see this happening at line management level, but not yet proliferated to upper management? Indian product owner taking mostly to Indian peer developers, bypassing normal communication channels. Indians being friendly with each other and stone cold with the rest. Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restauran…

Now imagine being a minority. You're white colleagues making white jokes. Hiring only white people. Going to white restaurants. Etc... I like when a privileged class gets a contact high of the real world for so many and can't handle it. Employment discrimination is one thing. Having friends and going to lunch is another. For the record, as a white man I've never met, in my entire life, a single Indian person who refused to be friends with me and was only friends with other Indian people. I'm sure they exist. There are ass holes everywhere. This is not an epidemic. However, your response reeks of privilege. "How is it possible I'm not on top?!?!?"

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#188

Post by eru »

Since there's a lot of negativity about Indians in the comments here:

I just worked for a startup with many Indians (including the founder). It was all fine, and I liked my coworkers. I can understand that other people had different experiences: companies and people differ.

For context, everything was remote, and I worked from Singapore. I'm not India, but I do like to prepone my meetings.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#189

Post by [deleted] »

miningape wrote: post #126
robofanatic wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a typical western mentality. If you do it then it is a problem but if I do the same thing it is somehow justifiable!

> I would adapt to fit in with local customs / culture or else leave What? It's apparently white to want to fit in with the local culture now.

[deleted]

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#190

Post by Cthulhu_ »

newaccount321 wrote: post #84
seper8 wrote: post #11

[flagged]

[flagged]

I believe you to be a culture war bot or shill, given your standpoints and hiding behind a new account.

First off, third world is an archaic word, it stopped being relevant after the cold war ended. Using that now is a clear dogwhistle.

Second, you mention Judeo-Christian foundations, isn't one of the base tenents of that to "love your neighbour"? Anyway, that too is archaic, as most developed countries have a clear separation of church, state, and culture ever since the Enlightenment. It's a shame the US seems to be backsliding.

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