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Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

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Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#161
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atlassian? As a user, I haven't noticed any decline in quality; it's just as painful to use now as it was a decade ago.

You can’t notice decline in quality when the quality is already so bad that any change feels like an improvement while still being bad.

> You can’t notice decline in quality when the quality is already so bad that any change feels like an improvement while still being bad.

In this case we don't have a decline in quality.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#162
post #65
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, the available data does not support your point/sentiment that energy prices are increasing for industrial customers in Germany. (see https://www.bdew.de/service/daten-und-grafiken/bdew-strompre... or https://www.statista.com/statistics/1050448/industrial-elect... ) From https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/industry-electricity-pr... > Economist and economy ministry advisor Jens Südekum called the analysis’s resul…

FWIW there was a huge surge in energy costs following the war in Ukraine (due to the reduction in supply of Russian gas) which was dampened by the government with a subsidized price cap at 0.40€/kWh - for consumers anyway, as far as I'm aware there were different subsidies for industry. But consumer prices have largely stabilized at a range of 0.25€ - 0.35€ although you'll also find some prices listed as low as 0.20€…

> FWIW there was a huge surge in energy costs following the war in Ukraine (due to the reduction in supply of Russian gas)

And due to the fact that they decided to shut down the last nuclear power plants directly after that, which further reduced supply and until today I consider this one of the most stupid political decisions ever made.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#163
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most would not move to India or any other place and impose their culture and exclude locals in a fair and just world. I'm trying to say that going to restaurants as a group of people and having in-jokes does not qualify as "imposing your culture" in any way. These things routinely happen at companies that have few to no Indians, they just take a different form. Also, are you really claiming that if you moved to Ban…

The point is not the restaurant or jokes, but whether business decisions are made there (or if relationships built there drive business decisions).

Sure, but Americans have been doing this for hundreds of years through exclusionary hobbies like golf, fantasy football, and a hundred other things. That's just how social groups work. They are often cliquey and exclusionary.

That's why I think it's weird to only target Indians in this regard. They are building an in-group just like everyone else; the difference is that OP seems to have little experience not being part of the in-group.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the one throwing around the word "native" casually. To cite your example, Salt Lake City was founded less than 200 years ago whereas Puebloans have been living in the area for several thousands of years. You can certainly make a claim that Mormon culture is "native" to Utah, but I think at 200 v/s 5000+ you can expect that claim to be contested.

Funny enough, the definition has nothing to do with ancestry. "Native: a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not."

Yeah, this is the exact sense in which I wrote it originally - but I sensed the screams of 1000 idiots and wrote "native" to try avoid that entire line of conversation. It seems though that my efforts went unnoticed - oh well!

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#165
post #143
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEI is hardly about unskilled alternatives. It’s only about getting people to the table who are equally qualified and capable and overlooked and under represented. Often to the chagrin of most people who are lamenting on it changing.

Please don't take this personally, or as an attack on you. But having seen DEI first-hand, and the "equally qualified" people it has actively displaced and disenfranchised, I'd have to say that this view avoids the ugly reality on the ground wrt DEI. There is an entire country currently affected by it's poor implementation, and it's failure is just seen as more reason for efforts to be doubled and for more-extreme qu…

There's nothing personal to take. So you shouldn't take it personally.

Perhaps, instead we can think about how could it be taken it professionally..

There's equal or better qualified candidates for every position that don't make it to the table because of existing gatekeeping.

That would likely have the effect of helping borderline candidates who can fail upwards, maybe do that a little less... or level up.

What's curious is the presumption that one persons experience or interpretation (yours) doesn't mean a better perspective, experience can't exist.

Is it possible you might not be the only one experiencing DEI?

Gatekeeping has been a thing that's existed for a very, very, very long time. Often to the benefit of many of the people complaining about new kinds of space-making that affect gatekeeping that they didn't realize benefitted them.

This current wave of DEI is definitely early. It's not perfect. Neither was the gatekeeping that preceded it.

Other things that were early got a lot more leeway and understanding. But it can shows what some folks want to see happen (or not happen) one way or the other.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#166
post #75
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m gonna dip into politics a bit for my assertion that “fight racism with racism” isn’t a great move, either for the societal long term or the personal/legal short term.

That is the entire premise of DEI initiatives. It's yet another "an eye for an eye".

It is if you look at it in a divisive, "us" vs "them" fashion. However, it's to try and make up for hundreds or more years of active suppression and exclusion from society and opportunities.

Ask yourselves, who paid for your education? Was it pulled up by the bootstraps rags-to-riches, or did you get help from e.g. family? Where did you grow up, and how did that contribute to your current career / life?

Now imagine you didn't have those opportunities, because your family (going back generations) never was able to build up generational wealth and comfort.

DEI is an attempt to make up for that. Is it ideal? No. Does it come across as discrimination to the priviledged people / classes? Sure. Does it personally affect you? Probably not, but I don't know you (generalised you, the reader).

That said, if you don't like DEI, vote and act accordingly. Work to make sure everyone earns a liveable wage, owns a house, gets a good education and consequent steady job opportunities regardless of familial wealth. Be and act anti-racist and anti-classist, because it's not enough to simply "not be racist".

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like it or not, it is the dominant culture especially in professional environments. At least sometimes it's not, which is why the OP feels so excluded and is asking for tips on how to navigate the clearly unfamiliar feeling of not being able to just "fit in" as part of the dominant culture. The reality is that the US is a melting pot with a lot of subcultures, and you should learn to navigate those subcultures inst…

> Maybe next time the OP should show some curiosity about what their coworkers are joking about, and shyly ask for a seat at the table. I have done it plenty of times. Yep 100% this is the only decent solution OP has barring leaving the company. It leads to really interesting conversations and you get to learn a lot about a huge portion of the planet's population. Some people go out of their way for these experiences…

A lot of arguments here are getting caught on the wrong details.

It's good to experience new cultures and stretch out of ones comfort zone!

But cultural similarity is also the strongest form of bias in office dynamics.

So, it's great if people go to Indian restaurants. It's not great if people only go to Indian restaurants. It's not great if people only go to steakhouses.

And it's especially not great if colleagues don't make efforts to include less culturally similar colleagues in events, whatever the cultures in question.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restaurants during lunch break, so now most of the colleagues follow suit, how to stop it all? Are you seriously asking how to "fight back" on Indians going to restaurants and joking with each other? As an Indian in a flyover state who has been routinely excluded from golfing events, and had my d…

[flagged]

I am just using a signature American phrase[1]. If anything, this is a mark of how assimilated I am!

I mean no contempt; I am happy to live in a flyover state. Also, the state did not "allow me" to live here, the Federal Government did; as anyone with an elementary knowledge of American government principles should be able to discern.

Your response though, seems to show some anti-immigrant anger. I am sorry you feel that way, and hope you find happiness!

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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyover_country

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#169

Seeing this happen at an originally Australian unicorn after the technical co-founder stepped down and new CTO swapped out all of their engineering leadership with Indian hires from Microsoft. Previously saw it at a lesser degree to older unicorns and places like Oracle, IBM, etc. Although it’s normalised in the latter ones.

I've been at a number of companies that had a significant Indian workforce, often hired through the likes of Infosys and the like. I don't believe that's down to nepotism or whatever though, but simple market forces: "you need two dozen SAP experts and can't find them locally? We have them".

That said, there's frequently islands of Indian and "the other" developers, in part that'll be cultural, but in part it's down to simply having a different job, expertise, department, etc.

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