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The Naming of America (2023)

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Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#101

Post by dyauspitr »

jmclnx wrote: post #38

>A black African discovery of America, it has been argued, took place around 3,000 years ago , and influenced the development of Mayan, Aztec, and Inca civilizations This is a new one on me. Maybe it could it have happened, but I very much doubt it. This seems to go back to the usual thing of "Native Americans were too dumb to build a civilization". If anyone got to the Americas before people crossing the Atlantic, i…

I don’t think there is any evidence of black Africans building ships or sailing very far. I seriously doubt they could pull off an Atlantic crossing.

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#102

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

rgblambda wrote: post #36
dleary wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the UK “England” is a different class of error, though. England is a part of the UK. Analogous would be calling the USA “Texas”. Calling the UK “Britain” is a much more direct comparison. United States of America -> America United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland -> Britain

It's not helped when England, Britain and United Kingdom have been viewed as interchangeable terms by UK politicians, famous writers and the general public. Boris Johnson: "If I am ever asked on the streets of London, or in any other venue, public or private, to produce my ID card as evidence that I am who I say I am, when I have done nothing wrong and am simply ambling along and breathing God’s fresh air like any ot…

[Great] Britain is an island

England is a country (part of Britain, together with Wales & Scotland)

The United Kingdom [of Great Britain and Northern Ireland], is an alliance of countries.

I'd hope that most citizens of the UK wouldn't regard these as interchangeable, and just because an Englishman waxes poetic about England doesn't mean he's unaware that it's part of the UK, etc.

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#103

Post by dghughes »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #19
meiraleal wrote: post #8

Intersting. In Brazil we argue that the US isn't America. Great to know that Brazil was first called America, not the US :)

"America" is the only name the country has. Other countries are also called "United States of $FOO", so the USA does not own title to "United States" in the same way no one owns "Democratic Republic" as the name of their country. Regardless, in most languages and countries, it is just "America" so that ship has sailed. Either way, America or United States, everyone knows which country is being referenced.

Here in Canada at least my generation it was The States, The US, even The Boston States but never America.

I also now hear America now from younger people (Even US football which never got a second look even Canadian football was mocked (two of nine total teams had the same name) now people have Superbowl parties.

Culture creep is causing USization more rapidly in Canada.

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#104

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

adastra22 wrote: post #91
graemep wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered about how the majority of people belonging to those two groups felt about it. I am quite surprised that "Indian" is still acceptable in a country as sensitive about vocabulary as the US - its very much a colonial term. Then again "America" is, if named after Vespucci, is named after a slave owner and trader which does not seem to bother anyone (which is odd in an age when other things are being renamed). I…

> I prefer "Native American" because, as British Sri Lankan (lived in both countries) Indian just has a different meaning to me. Well that's the thing, you're not indigenous American, so you don't really get a say. Neither am I, btw. We're getting into moral discussions here, but if anyone should be granted one thing, it's the right to choose for themselves what group name they prefer. There wasn't, generally speakin…

> “We were enslaved as American Indians, we were colonized as American Indians, and we will gain our freedom as American Indians and then we can call ourselves anything we damn please,”

- Russell Means, a Lakota activist, wrote in his 1998 essay, “I Am An American Indian, Not a Native American!” https://compusci.com/indian/

See also: https://www.fair360.com/medialib/uploads/2020/11/Native-Amer...

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#105

Post by oldmapgallery »

Was tremendously intrigued to see Marcou's name and position on the topic that came up in this discussion. He's a titan in historical geology. But I can't think of any early maps that identify this people group or mountain range. Especially early on (16th -17th century). Solid, reliable depictions of the Central American interior come late, many in the late 18th and early 19th century. Identifying people groups was pretty darned important. Think to those early maps for New England, identifying people groups were as abundant as placenames and detailed landform. Take the Blaeu for New England, abundant in native peoples... https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~3...

I appreciate Marcou's map (1890) being a historical recreation of that region of Nicaragua, but I would have expected this tribal name to be an anchoring notation throughout early maps of the region from the beginning. But maybe I'm missing something.

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#106

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

shiroiushi wrote: post #26
meiraleal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have some sympathy for Brazil getting pissed off about Amazon (the company) too. I never met a Brazilian that cares about it tho. There was a big national uproar a few decades ago when some Japanese company tried to patent the use of the Açaí fruit and trademark. now about America and Americans. South Americans and North Americans are as much "Americans" as Northern and Southern Europeans are Europeans. Calling t…

>Calling themselves THE Americans and the rest latinos "Latinos" are what Spanish and (to a much lesser extent) Portuguese-speaking people living in the USA call themselves (and their relatives still living in other Latin-American countries). They seem to prefer it to "Hispanics". And the term only applies to people speaking Latin-derived languages (i.e., Spanish and Portuguese). So the people living in Belize, for i…

> "Latinos" are what Spanish and (to a much lesser extent) Portuguese-speaking people living in the USA call themselves (and their relatives still living in other Latin-American countries). They seem to prefer it to "Hispanics".

In my part of the world (Santa Fe, New Mexico), people of "direct" Spanish descent prefer the term "Hispano" to differentiate themselves from both Hispanics (n-th cousins who might still arrive here, but did so after several generations south of Mexico City), and Latinos which is broadly equivalent to Hispanic.

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#107

Post by Yeul »

dleary wrote: post #34
arethuza wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the point?

Calling the UK “England” is a different class of error, though. England is a part of the UK. Analogous would be calling the USA “Texas”. Calling the UK “Britain” is a much more direct comparison. United States of America -> America United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland -> Britain

The Netherlands is often called "Holland" which technically doesn't even exist anymore.

But of course Dutch people don't really care what foreigners call the country, they can use whatever name they come up with it doesn't matter. Although it's nice that Germany gets it right. These kind of arguments speak to the fragile ego of some nations.

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#109

Post by jjtheblunt »

adastra22 wrote: post #77
jjtheblunt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm from the united states of america, mid 50s, and i always thought it's pretty random "america" implies the united states too.

Literally the only country with “America” in its name tho.

good point

Re: The Naming of America (2023)

#110

Post by throaway89 »

thoroughburro wrote: post #94
throaway89 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

England annexed Wales and Ireland and would have annexed Scotland if it didn't use marriage instead.

> would have annexed Scotland if it didn't use marriage instead Would have tried, perhaps.

Im sure the Scots would have fought to the last Scotsman, but I think they would lose in the end.
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