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GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

cnn.com

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Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#81

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rickbutton wrote: post #80
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imply that there is some level of healthy after which it doesn't make sense to seek improvement is the dehumanizing and anti-social part No it's not. Every doctor triages. And every medical system has internal cost limits, whether implicit or implict, universal or variable, past which it will not treat. Sometimes that's enforced by gatekeeping entire categories of treatments; in other cases we have patients individ…

Correct, doctors do triage according to need and available resources. When you imply that there is some category of care that doesn't deserve treatment (or is too "costly" to provide), you are triaging and choosing economic growth over healthcare. I think that it is a rational decision to make, although it is certainly not the one that has the most respect for human life.

> When you imply that there is some category of care that doesn't deserve treatment (or is too "costly" to provide), you are triaging and choosing economic growth over healthcare

Yes, every medical system does this. (It's almost the defining difference between medicine and healthcare.)

America does it individually (and inefficiently). Europea by restricting access to expensive treatments. If you don't do this at some level, you'll wind up with edge cases constantly running up bills the economy can't pay for and a collapse of the healthcare system's solvency.

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#82

Post by AmericanChopper »

rickbutton wrote: post #74
AmericanChopper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin. But yes, I do think addicts should receive treatment, just as I think obese patients should (and do) receive treatment for all the diseases they end up with. But addicts, like the obese, impose many of the costs of their own bad life decisions onto others. It’s what you’d call a negative ex…

> I don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin. Your opinion is that of a petulant child. Many years of research has shown that obesity is not this simple. Many chemical processes take place that influence one's ability to make better health choices, and many external factors put constraints on those choices as well. This is the exact…

I would say that your suggestion that grown adults should be absolved of responsibility for their own decisions is actually a quintessentially childish idea. The fact that you are so deeply offended by any suggestion otherwise is even more childish.

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#83

Post by Eumenes »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75
AmericanChopper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin. But yes, I do think addicts should receive treatment, just as I think obese patients should (and do) receive treatment for all the diseases they end up with. But addicts, like the obese, impose many of the costs of their own bad life decisions onto others. It’s what you’d call a negative ex…

> don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin Based on what? The reward pathways are remarkably similar. And unlike heroin, you can't go cold turkey on eating.

Based on common sense. Not everyone has tried heroin, but most people have overgorged themselves - maybe eaten too much ice cream or candy or pizza. I am guilty of that, and make sure to make it a rare occurrence and keep myself in shape.

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#84

Post by ripply »

globular-toast wrote: post #57

I find it crazy that they were able to do what they did to cigarettes, essentially marginalising them by banning all marketing etc., but rather than do anything about McDonalds, Kellogs and other junk food companies we have to resort to people injecting or taking pills for life.

It may take another 10-20 years but I think this will eventually happen. I agree it’s criminal to permit marketing of this stuff. It took a very long time to get to this point with cigarettes but also realize that in other countries smoking is still a normal thing particularly Europe. Right now there is still a lot of money being made on producing super addictive junk food and therefore strong lobbying.

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#85

Post by thrownawaysz »

Good! I'm on liraglutide (Saxenda) for almost 3 months now (can't get semaglutide (Ozempic) in my country without being diagnosed with diabetes)

Anyway. Food cravings gone, I was eating like 10 times a day before that. At least, but sometimes even more. Now I'm on intermittent fasting/OMAD and has 0 problems. No hunger, no cravings. Feeling significantly better.

Lost 43 pounds so far (rougly 3 pounds per week)

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#86

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Eumenes wrote: post #83
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin Based on what? The reward pathways are remarkably similar. And unlike heroin, you can't go cold turkey on eating.

Based on common sense. Not everyone has tried heroin, but most people have overgorged themselves - maybe eaten too much ice cream or candy or pizza. I am guilty of that, and make sure to make it a rare occurrence and keep myself in shape.

> Not everyone has tried heroin, but most people have overgorged themselves

You're assuming everyone who tries heroin becomes an addict. At first glance it looks like "approximately 1 to 12 months after heroin onset, an estimated 23% to 38% of new heroin users have become dependent on heroin" [1]. By coincidence, that seems to mirror American obesity prevalence [2]. (Obviously heroin is more addictive than food. Don't do heroin.)

[1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...

[2] https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/php/data-research/adult-obesity-...

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#87

Post by Eumenes »

rickbutton wrote: post #74
AmericanChopper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin. But yes, I do think addicts should receive treatment, just as I think obese patients should (and do) receive treatment for all the diseases they end up with. But addicts, like the obese, impose many of the costs of their own bad life decisions onto others. It’s what you’d call a negative ex…

> I don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin. Your opinion is that of a petulant child. Many years of research has shown that obesity is not this simple. Many chemical processes take place that influence one's ability to make better health choices, and many external factors put constraints on those choices as well. This is the exact…

> Being obese is not a moral failing.

Source?

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#88

Post by swyx »

mobilejdral wrote: post #52
swyx wrote: post #4

for those who are interested in a cheaper, partially generic, pill based option for weight loss, i was just referred by a friend to the naltrexone + bupropion + metformin solution offered by hims (not linking because their website is terrible for learning anything without giving all your health info). he lost 30lbs in 3 months on it. i've just started so i cant vouch but just sharing that non GLP1 appetite suppressio…

Naltrexone in high doses takes away all pleasure by blocking opioid receptors (low doses do too, but it is different when only a few hours). So there is no reward for drinking or eating if that is why you are eating. If this is not why you eat it will be less effective. Bupropion acts as a norepinephrine–dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Importantly it doesn't directly raise your serotonin. If you are a night owl, have tr…

i mean your comments are helpful and useful context but no need to go censoring information just knowing about the existence of things?

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#89

Post by AmericanChopper »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75
AmericanChopper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin. But yes, I do think addicts should receive treatment, just as I think obese patients should (and do) receive treatment for all the diseases they end up with. But addicts, like the obese, impose many of the costs of their own bad life decisions onto others. It’s what you’d call a negative ex…

> don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin Based on what? The reward pathways are remarkably similar. And unlike heroin, you can't go cold turkey on eating.

Well the food addiction or sedentariness addiction diagnosis are a lot more controversial than a heroin addiction diagnosis, though I can see how they have some things in common. I think labelling any observable manifestation of poor impulse control as a medical addiction is more of a social trend than a legitimate scientific discovery.

The bigger difference though is that we all eat food, and for most of us includes at least some absolutely delicious food that would be incredibly unhealthy to eat in large quantities. We’re all (more or less) exposed to the “addictive substance”, it’s just some people have the ability to deprive ourselves constantly indulging that impulse, while others don’t. We don’t however, need to take small doses of heroin every day to survive.

Re: GLP-1 pills are coming, and they could revolutionize weight-loss treatment

#90

Post by JumpCrisscross »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #82
rickbutton wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think being addicted to laziness and having a glutinous appetite is exactly comparable to say, being addicted to heroin. Your opinion is that of a petulant child. Many years of research has shown that obesity is not this simple. Many chemical processes take place that influence one's ability to make better health choices, and many external factors put constraints on those choices as well. This is the exact…

I would say that your suggestion that grown adults should be absolved of responsibility for their own decisions is actually a quintessentially childish idea. The fact that you are so deeply offended by any suggestion otherwise is even more childish.

You're both wrong. Obesity increasingly looks like addiction--as with any addiction, it takes two to tango. But once you have an addict, shame is an ineffective treatment. Debating giving an obese person GLP-1 drugs is akin to challenging methadone for heroin addicts.
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