Live data from Hacker News

Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

chronicle.com

41–48 of 48 posts

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#41
I'm reading these comments and I'm seeing these things:

* Khan makes mistakes and just leaves them in.

* Khan doesn't tell you how you could use these things in real life

* He's just using a procedural rule-based approach.

Um, did none of your school teachers ever make those mistakes!?!? Because mine did, all the time. And I had nowhere else to turn. The beauty of Khan, and all the other educational videos on youtube, is that you can get a second (or third or fourth or tenth) opinion on the matter by asking your school teacher or by doing some more google searching. This is amazingly better than it used to be.

The great thing about Khan is he's obviously having fun teaching you. He's laughing and having a good time, he makes little mistakes and he has to scribble things out or correct himself later, and it's OK. He draws in pretty colors. What does that convey to a kid? Math can be fun! There are people that like it! You can like it too! It's OK if you mess up, even the pros do! The first time my kids watched a Khan video they were simultaneously cracking up and getting excited about their new-found knowledge. They begged for more. It was awesome. I wish more teachers taught like Khan.

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#42
post #39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A github pull request shares tools with tool developers and tool users. Are teachers sharing those educational insights with students ? if not , why ? and if so , is there a problem of reaching students with good educational content ?

>is there a problem of reaching students with good educational content? Actually, you've hit upon the root problem. Truly effective education doesn't scale. Why? Because truly effective education is personal and personalized. A teacher is very effective when teaching small classes, because they can give students individual attention. That teacher is not going to be as effective when teaching 100, or 1000, or a millio…

Class size doesn't matter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/study-cl...

(And I would argue huge college lecture halls, and courses such as the Standford AI class also illustrate that small class size isn't what it's made out to be.)

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#43
post #38

//-- sarcasm --// Wow, fantastic work guys! Your condescending commentary on the methods and content of the Khan videos is sooo helpful to a bunch of people who have benefited because of them. I know that my own kids, who augment their math from school with the Khan videos, really appreciate your mocking sentiment toward totally free content that has raised their knowledge, acumen and confidence toward math. //-- end…

>Seriously, you want to "raise the level of the discussion" with this type of piss-poor commentary? The only thing you're accomplishing at the moment is simply re-inforcing the stereotype that traditional education teachers are threatened by this content. I'm a classroom teacher, in mathematics and computer science. I can say, with certainty, that no teacher at my school is threatened by Khan Academy. That's a straw…

That's good, no teacher should be threatened by the Khan Academy content.

I've spoken with more than a few teachers who are abjectly opposed to KA content. While my own observation is that of a concerned parent (small sample size applies), I would suggest that there are some teachers who exhibit the behavior of having their approaches to teaching second-guessed (hence: threatened.) By a similar measure about "straw men", I would double-check any assumptions about teachers and their desires for students to simply learn. I've personally dealt with those in the teaching profession who resist the idea that there's more than one way to learn something.

As for KA criticism, I've yet to hear suggestions that would yield better results. I get that implementation/instruction goes against the grain of traditional teaching methods. But hey, maybe that's the point? I'm in no position to assess that, but I am in position to evaluate results.

My kids are proof positive that using KA works for them. I'm an engineer and excelled at math, and they understand concepts better with KA material than without, so I have some perspective as to whether their learning is what I consider well-grounded.

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#44
post #42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is there a problem of reaching students with good educational content? Actually, you've hit upon the root problem. Truly effective education doesn't scale. Why? Because truly effective education is personal and personalized. A teacher is very effective when teaching small classes, because they can give students individual attention. That teacher is not going to be as effective when teaching 100, or 1000, or a millio…

Class size doesn't matter: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/study-cl... (And I would argue huge college lecture halls, and courses such as the Standford AI class also illustrate that small class size isn't what it's made out to be.)

First, that is a really poor citation, but let me just take it at face value. Here's what the article claims (from qualitative research btw) does have an impact:

-frequent teacher feedback

-the use of data to guide instruction

-high-dosage tutoring

-increased instructional time

-high expectations

How many of those are not even doable by Khan?

By the way, when I say 'class size matters' I'm not saying that 'large class sizes aren't effective.' I'm saying 'smaller class sizes are more effective than large class sizes.' We all know learning can happen in pretty much any environment. The question is how to maximize that value. The fact that you can learn in the stanford AI class is very far away from answering the question 'is that the most effective way to learn.'

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seriously, you want to "raise the level of the discussion" with this type of piss-poor commentary? The only thing you're accomplishing at the moment is simply re-inforcing the stereotype that traditional education teachers are threatened by this content. I'm a classroom teacher, in mathematics and computer science. I can say, with certainty, that no teacher at my school is threatened by Khan Academy. That's a straw…

That's good, no teacher should be threatened by the Khan Academy content. I've spoken with more than a few teachers who are abjectly opposed to KA content. While my own observation is that of a concerned parent (small sample size applies), I would suggest that there are some teachers who exhibit the behavior of having their approaches to teaching second-guessed (hence: threatened.) By a similar measure about "straw m…

There are bad teachers everywhere, just like there are bad engineers, bad bartenders, and bad doctors. Focusing on them as a sample, representative or not, is wasting time. Just because a teacher doesn't believe that there's multiple ways to learn something doesn't mean they don't want students to learn. It means they're not very good at their job. Before I became a classroom teacher, I worked for the City of Boston, teaching elementary school teachers techniques to improve their math instruction[1]. I interacted with hundreds of teachers, and while I met some thick-headed jackasses, I never met one that didn't want his or her students to learn.

The implementation and instruction at Khan really doesn't go against traditional teaching methods. They are traditional teaching methods, transposed online. Learn via a one-size-fits-all lecture, practice via rote. It's a traditional method, mind you, because it's worked fro hundreds of years.

I'm not surprised it works for a number of students, and I'm glad it works. It's better than most alternatives out there, paid or free, which is damning with faint praise.

I'll be the first to admit: I can't match it, or beat it, because it's a herculean effort to do so. One of my best one-day lessons has probably taken me 15 hours of work outside the classroom to write, over the course of 5 years, and has seen a half-dozen revisions. I'm still not in love with it. If I complain, it's not because I want KA to go away, it's because I want it to improve.

[1]During my tenure there, we won the Broad Prize for Urban Education, and were specifically noted in the award for raising our 4th and 8th grade mathematics scores more dramatically than any other city in the country.

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#46
post #39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A github pull request shares tools with tool developers and tool users. Are teachers sharing those educational insights with students ? if not , why ? and if so , is there a problem of reaching students with good educational content ?

>is there a problem of reaching students with good educational content? Actually, you've hit upon the root problem. Truly effective education doesn't scale. Why? Because truly effective education is personal and personalized. A teacher is very effective when teaching small classes, because they can give students individual attention. That teacher is not going to be as effective when teaching 100, or 1000, or a millio…

>> So if you can find a way to scale personal (in the social sense), and personalized education, you're going to be positioned very well.

Maybe scaling personalized education is not that complicated.Basically you just create wide arrays of explanations to something , and automatically try to offer each student the explanations he will benefit most from. Yes it demands work on content creation , and it demand a way(automated, crowdsourced, by teacher) to offer each student recommendations on content. But the gains could be immense: offering great education globally.

After you solved this problem, offering social support becomes somewhat easier.Instead of the teacher focusing on lecturing to full classes, creating lesson plans, he can focus on working with each student individually and offering social support. That's the whole idea of reverse classroom:children listen to lectures at home, and do homework at school with help of the teacher.

But that's just one way of a scalable solution, but there are many startups working on finding the solution and building interesting things. I wouldn't bet against all of them.

>> Most students do experience long-term learning in these environments.

That's interesting, because that doesn't match the many positive reviews from students. That also doesn't match the fact that khan offers exercises to some students and see results improve.

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#47
post #36
post #8

I do agree with some of the issues presented here. Khan teaches you how to solve many math problems, but he rarely mentions how you could use it in real life . But if you go to the Q&A section you will rarely see this brought up. I do find it appalling that their approach is making a parody video instead of presenting a better solution. Instead of wasting their time—and mine— making fun of Khan, it would have been im…

There is no pull request for Khan Academy. I don't even see a bug tracker. Teachers and other involved people have tried to do everything else; it just doesn't get their attention. The last time Khan posted a call to hire on HN, I reached out to them about a position as a curriculum developer. They're more interested in expanding their back-end currently, not improving their instruction.

>> They're more interested in expanding their back-end currently, not improving their instruction.

I think the reason is simple. Khan came from india, where teacher quality is awful in many places. he want to offer good enough education to those who have awful education.

Re: Parody Critiques Popular Khan Academy Videos

#48
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no pull request for Khan Academy. I don't even see a bug tracker. Teachers and other involved people have tried to do everything else; it just doesn't get their attention. The last time Khan posted a call to hire on HN, I reached out to them about a position as a curriculum developer. They're more interested in expanding their back-end currently, not improving their instruction.

>> They're more interested in expanding their back-end currently, not improving their instruction. I think the reason is simple. Khan came from india, where teacher quality is awful in many places. he want to offer good enough education to those who have awful education.

No he didn't came from India. He is born in New Orleans, USA. But point holds, there is awful teachers all around the world, including USA, and a vast collection of good quality instruction videos is valuable.

I'm from Finland, which tops in PISA rankings and what I've read about the reasons behind our good PISA performance, one is that teachers profession is still valued here, we have quality applicants and thus good teachers compared to many other countries.

Based on that experience, I'd say that Sal Khan is definitely above an average as a teacher. Anecdotally I'd say he is a very good teacher, but that's debatable.

Post reply on HN