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Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

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Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#61

Post by will_work4tears »

EvilTerran wrote: post #45
will_work4tears wrote: post #34

Ex-PHP developers that bash PHP are like the poor kids that win the lottery and then start bashing poor people publicly. Sad and kinda small of them. I'm willing to win the lottery, mind you, but I'd never waste my time or lower myself down to bashing poor kids.

Surely that'd be "Ex-PHP developers that bash PHP programmers are like the poor kids that win the lottery and then start bashing poor people publicly." or "Ex-PHP developers that bash PHP are like the poor kids that win the lottery and then start bashing being poor publicly." ? Very different, IMO.

The first one. I think the language is pretty fair game. However, the bashing seems to carry on over to the programmer often enough.

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#62

Post by drivingmenuts »

iwejfweoifjweif wrote: post #42
kator wrote: post #35

I've been coding for nearly 30 years and have seen this rant for every major language I've coded in. The reality is there is no perfect tool even in construction as Jeff tries to draw parallels to you will find that many different tools are required for many different situations. Often a hammer can be used to make a hole in a wall and other times you use a saw to cut a nail head off and just pound it into the wall be…

Why is python or ruby too hard for your dad to learn? If anything I would think something like ruby would be even easier than php since things are a bit more consistent. I just don't see how PHP is more approachable, especially compared to the supposed ease of ruby on rails.

Try getting Django to run on various hosting sites. Dreamhost - been with them for ten years, gave up trying to get Django to work after a month of poring thru the docs, trying to get tab A into slot 3x. Mind you, I really like Python, but it's not worth the effort for a couple more years.

PHP is the A-10 of languages. It's a slow, ugly and easy target. It works pretty much everywhere.

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#63

Post by dasil003 »

mishkovski wrote: post #60
dasil003 wrote: post #29

The irony of this post is boundless. > Except now it's 2012, and fellow programmers are still writing long screeds bemoaning the awfulness of PHP! Yes, and not only did Jeff write one in 2008, but he wrote another one just now. You can't write 10 paragraphs about what a blight PHP is and then pretend like you're being constructive by admonishing us to create better tools. In fact what everyone is doing with these ran…

"Or what about the damage that proprietary platforms like .NET (which Jeff uses if I'm not mistaken) or iOS do to the programming world by restricting progress to a single company." PHP is used for web development. Microsoft's best alternative for web development is ASP.NET MVC which is open source.

No, PHP is a language with some framework-like aspects. Your nitpicking is quite poor.

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#64

Post by xfax »

cletus wrote: post #48

I seriously groaned when I saw this post (title). I was expecting an elitist diatribe about PHP (because this is perennially popular amongst particular programmers) but that's not what this post is intended to be. Interestingly Jeff does take the usual potshots at PHP almost like he thinks he'll lose street cred if he doesn't but the basic message I agree with: if you want someone to stop doing something you consider…

I think you forgot an important feature of PHP: it just works.

I can pretty much create and "deploy" a PHP web app within minutes of getting a run-of-the-mill hosting service.

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#65

Post by ars »

cletus wrote: post #48

I seriously groaned when I saw this post (title). I was expecting an elitist diatribe about PHP (because this is perennially popular amongst particular programmers) but that's not what this post is intended to be. Interestingly Jeff does take the usual potshots at PHP almost like he thinks he'll lose street cred if he doesn't but the basic message I agree with: if you want someone to stop doing something you consider…

> default to HTML escaping on output

??? Is that a joke? Don't do that! That's just as bad as magic quotes.

> no register globals

It hasn't existed for a quite a while now in PHP.

Other than that I quite agree with what you wrote.

Most of the criticism of PHP is simply a desire to be special. If lots of people are using something, you want to make sure not to, so that you feel special. Now that you've decided not to use it, you need to justify it to yourself. And people find all sorts of real criticisms in the process - yet none of them matter!

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#66

Post by nateabele »

I'm not saying PHP is so great, not by a long shot; but if it's 2012, and people are still writing "OMG PHP SUX" posts, yet PHP is still everywhere, the only thing I can see that meaning is this: the things that matter to people who write "OMG PHP SUX" posts don't matter to anyone else.

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#67

Post by billpatrianakos »

bobsy wrote: post #5

Sorry Jeff. The only thing broken with PHP is you (and other people like you). How much PHP do you use Jeff? Lets assume none. How is PHP hurting you? I mean seriously, how much contact do you even have with PHP? PHP is easy to learn, easy to make websites with. There are a tonne of paying jobs which require PHP. PHP runs a lot of websites. I am a PHP developer. I prefer Python but my PHP job pays me just fine. There…

"I prefer Python". Why did you say that? To me it feels like you said it do people would take you seriously as a "real" developer. Because surely a "real" developer wouldn't actually enjoy using PHP or use it unless they were forced, right?

I agree with your point and I just wanted to add that the fact that we have to add in little details like "I prefer Python" just to be taken seriously says more about hacker elitism than it does about PHP.

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#68

Post by tocomment »

a few years ago a graphic designer asked me for some help using PHP to query a database.

I wrote a little thing that worked, and then said, "oh wait, this could be a problem with SQL injection, here's how you fix that".

And his response was "umm can you just send me the first thing you wrote".

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#69

Post by dberg »

billpatrianakos wrote: post #67
bobsy wrote: post #5

Sorry Jeff. The only thing broken with PHP is you (and other people like you). How much PHP do you use Jeff? Lets assume none. How is PHP hurting you? I mean seriously, how much contact do you even have with PHP? PHP is easy to learn, easy to make websites with. There are a tonne of paying jobs which require PHP. PHP runs a lot of websites. I am a PHP developer. I prefer Python but my PHP job pays me just fine. There…

"I prefer Python". Why did you say that? To me it feels like you said it do people would take you seriously as a "real" developer. Because surely a "real" developer wouldn't actually enjoy using PHP or use it unless they were forced, right? I agree with your point and I just wanted to add that the fact that we have to add in little details like "I prefer Python" just to be taken seriously says more about hacker eliti…

damn, that was spot on.

Re: Coding Horror: The PHP Singularity

#70

Post by [deleted] »

tocomment wrote: post #68

a few years ago a graphic designer asked me for some help using PHP to query a database. I wrote a little thing that worked, and then said, "oh wait, this could be a problem with SQL injection, here's how you fix that". And his response was "umm can you just send me the first thing you wrote".

[deleted]
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