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XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

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Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#171

Post by IWeldMelons »

kelnos wrote: post #149
IWeldMelons wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KDE is actually lighter. And hidpi is much better on Qt.

Lighter I won't entirely disagree with: I think a default install of KDE will still be heavier than Xfce, but GTK3 isn't the lightest toolkit, and you can slim KDE down without losing much functionality. But I don't get the HiDPI point? Certainly 4.16 had issues with HiDPI, but in 4.18 you can set the UI scaling factor, and I believe shortly before and/or after initial release, we fixed up all the issues of blurry im…

GTK3 had no fractional scaling, GTK4 had it broken, but QT has the best fractional scaling I've seen.

Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#173

Post by sweeter »

HKH2 wrote: post #142
sweeter wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Wayland, the compositor can either let windows draw their own borders, or it can disallow it. On X11, if a window want's to draw its own decorations... it will just do it, and you won't be able to do anything about it. Pretty much every single Wayland compositor follows this except for GNOME, who refuse to do so. It causes problems with windows like Davinci Resolve who don't draw their own decos. This leaves some…

> This leaves some windows without any controls at all lol. Don't all WMs have shortcut keys anyway?

I mean yeah... But most people are going to have trouble with that, especially being unable to resize or move the window. I even saw a tech Youtuber try out gnome and they were baffled on why they couldn't move or resize davinci resolve whatsoever. Its almost shameful how negligent and hard-headed gnome is being.

Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#174

Post by panick21_ »

cwillu wrote: post #112
panick21_ wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

X11 is basically already unsupported, pretty much all the developers moved to Wayland. Even the BSD and everybody else relaying on X11 has noticed that and they know they can't maintain X11 by themselves. It will 100x not go away, there is no way. Literally all big stakeholder both open source (Gnome, KDE, Fedora and so on) and companies like Valve are all in on Wayland. The reality is, X11 is a complete train wreck…

You say X11 is unsupported, and I note with glee that X11 hasn't _broken_ for me _since_ they stopped supporting it.

When software works it just works, and if you don't change it it continues to work. But if you had an issue, its unlikely that it would be fixed or that new features you want would arrive. Unsupported is fine for much software on the world.

Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#175

Post by panick21_ »

AlienRobot wrote: post #90
panick21_ wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

X11 is basically already unsupported, pretty much all the developers moved to Wayland. Even the BSD and everybody else relaying on X11 has noticed that and they know they can't maintain X11 by themselves. It will 100x not go away, there is no way. Literally all big stakeholder both open source (Gnome, KDE, Fedora and so on) and companies like Valve are all in on Wayland. The reality is, X11 is a complete train wreck…

>X11 is basically already unsupported, pretty much all the developers moved to Wayland In my view, Wayland is basically unsupported. GNOME and KDE support it. XFCE, Lxqt, Mate, and Cinnamon don't. It's been over 10 years. You could make a whole DE from scratch in this time.

You maybe don't want to hear it, but the overwhelming majority of people are on Gnome or KDE. You might as well claim X11 is not supported because Hyperland, Cosmic and many others aren't supported on X11.

Unsupported in the context of software doesn't really mean what you took it as anyway.

Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#176

Post by panick21_ »

kelnos wrote: post #153
AlienRobot wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>X11 is basically already unsupported, pretty much all the developers moved to Wayland In my view, Wayland is basically unsupported. GNOME and KDE support it. XFCE, Lxqt, Mate, and Cinnamon don't. It's been over 10 years. You could make a whole DE from scratch in this time.

> It's been over 10 years. For most of those years, fundamental parts of the desktop experience were just not possible on Wayland. Even today, there are some current Xfce features that are just not implementable on Wayland. > You could make a whole DE from scratch in this time. Depends on your goals and team size. Part of me would love to rewrite Xfce in Rust (yes, I'm one of those people), using a different, lighter…

Have you looked at cosmic and iced? Maybe there is some bases of cooperation.

What features are missing from Xfce perspective?

Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#177

Post by ChocolateGod »

kelnos wrote: post #131
tristan957 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSD has nothing to do with UX. CSD just means the application draws the window controls and borders.

> CSD has nothing to do with UX. Sure it does. Allowing windows to draw their own decorations, often in different ways and with different styles and themes, and not respecting the settings in xfwm4 as to what window-control buttons should be drawn (and where)... that's a huge UX issue.

Depends on your definition of CSD.

The process drawing it's own decorations? Technical decision that both Windows (tad complicated) and macOS already do, nothing to do with UX. There's nothing stopping this model from having the uniformity of SSD (as like on macOS), but it does on Linux due to multiple toolkits which don't all agree with eachother.

Combined headerbars? UX decision.

Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#178

Post by ChocolateGod »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #103
bitwize wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "Wayland thing" is what the X devs would rather work on instead of X. It's the future. Best to rip the Band-Aid off now.

Perhaps if the X devs want people to migrate, they should consider giving Wayland all the features of X. Otherwise people are going to keep using the thing that works.

> all the features of X

I don't think Wayland should add a print server ;)

Re: XFCE 4.20 aims to bring preliminary Wayland support

#180

Post by HKH2 »

sweeter wrote: post #173
HKH2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This leaves some windows without any controls at all lol. Don't all WMs have shortcut keys anyway?

I mean yeah... But most people are going to have trouble with that, especially being unable to resize or move the window. I even saw a tech Youtuber try out gnome and they were baffled on why they couldn't move or resize davinci resolve whatsoever. Its almost shameful how negligent and hard-headed gnome is being.

They say they want software freedom, but in reality you have to use their software their way or you will suffer.

I gave up when even normal settings were hidden and I had to use Gnome Tweak Tool, but when I upgraded, I found all my changes had been wiped.

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