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We're excited about our new roundabout

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Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#121

Post by davidgay »

lmm wrote: post #100
bnralt wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online I see this mentality that roundabouts are great no matter what and it seems really strange to me. It really depends on the design of the roundabout and the traffic conditions. Where I grew up there are a lot of roundabouts, but many of them are so dangerously designed I started actively avoiding them. It’s not that you can’t poorly design a four way stop, but it seems to be much less common, for whatever reaso…

They absolutely are. Even if they don't prevent all collisions, they turn T-bones into glancing hits and so save a lot of lives. The worst roundabout beats the best 4-way stop any day of the week. Sometimes there really are easy answers.

You can actually screw them up: by our house (in California) they replaced a 4-way stop with a roundabout with no signaling on 2 of the ways, and a stop on the other 2. An absolute disaster, as the 2 ways without the stop assumed they had the right of way over people already in the roundabout.

After the neighbourhood complained, it's now a roundabout with 4 stops (not ideal, but not dangerous either).

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#122

Post by plorg »

mway wrote: post #117
thepaulmcbride wrote: post #35

I live in the US now, but originally from Ireland. My least favourite part of US road infrastructure is the 4 way stop. They are just not good compared to a roundabout. Half the time the only way you can tell it’s an all way stop is by looking for the back of the stop signs on the perpendicular road. With a roundabout, you only have to look in one direction, and if it’s clear, you don’t even have to stop.

Unfortunately, most drivers I've observed in the US seem utterly confounded by roundabouts, particularly the yielding part. The roundabouts I've experienced - there are several where I live - are mostly single-lane, and are still very nerve wracking to drive around because other drivers behave very unpredictably. Then again, I also see folks struggling with (or intentionally ignoring) queuing for 4+ way stops. That s…

The state put in a roundabout in my town last year on an a relatively busy county road with a turn towards a new elementary school. While a lot of people had big opinions on it before it was built they figured it out pretty quickly, to the point that it's a non-issue. My manager, who is kind of a crank, noted the first day he used it to drop his kid off that he didn't expect it to work but it ended up being really smooth. In my experience drivers now are more consistent at navigating the roundabout correctly than at following right of way at any of the 4-way stops in town.

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#123

Post by Aeolun »

bnralt wrote: post #111
lmm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely are. Even if they don't prevent all collisions, they turn T-bones into glancing hits and so save a lot of lives. The worst roundabout beats the best 4-way stop any day of the week. Sometimes there really are easy answers.

> The worst roundabout beats the best 4-way stop any day of the week. Sometimes there really are easy answers. Maybe you haven't seen the worst ones, then. For instance, one by my house had traffic lines which gave people the wrong impression about the right of way within the roundabout, leading to every vehicle treating driving like that. I actually drove like that as well for a long time - when you're spending ever…

Just because you drove wrong does not make the roundabout bad. That would require you to compare accident numbers from before and after. I’m fairly certain the stats lean in favor of even terribly designed roundabouts.

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#124

Post by Aeolun »

davidgay wrote: post #121
lmm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely are. Even if they don't prevent all collisions, they turn T-bones into glancing hits and so save a lot of lives. The worst roundabout beats the best 4-way stop any day of the week. Sometimes there really are easy answers.

You can actually screw them up: by our house (in California) they replaced a 4-way stop with a roundabout with no signaling on 2 of the ways, and a stop on the other 2. An absolute disaster, as the 2 ways without the stop assumed they had the right of way over people already in the roundabout. After the neighbourhood complained, it's now a roundabout with 4 stops (not ideal, but not dangerous either).

What should I imagine when you say roundabout with 4 stops? Isn’t that just an intersection that looks like a roundabout without functioning like one (entirely negating the point)?

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#125

Post by desas »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #33
googledocsftw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a roundabout more disruptive than a 4 way junction with stop signs. In terms of brain processing, you get used to it and it becomes second nature. It is a skill.

We have back-to-back round-a-bouts in Chattanooga (153 / Lake Resort / Access) which have two loops (concentric inner & outer round-a-bouts)... that can be quite confusing for anybody unfamiliar with the local pattern.

Like the Magic Roundabout in the UK? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx9nlgk97eo

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#126

Post by bnralt »

Aeolun wrote: post #123
bnralt wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst roundabout beats the best 4-way stop any day of the week. Sometimes there really are easy answers. Maybe you haven't seen the worst ones, then. For instance, one by my house had traffic lines which gave people the wrong impression about the right of way within the roundabout, leading to every vehicle treating driving like that. I actually drove like that as well for a long time - when you're spending ever…

Just because you drove wrong does not make the roundabout bad. That would require you to compare accident numbers from before and after. I’m fairly certain the stats lean in favor of even terribly designed roundabouts.

> Just because you drove wrong does not make the roundabout bad.

You seem to have misread my post. Everyone drove wrong. I seemed to be the only one to notice it, and started avoiding that roundabout, because driving with the correct right of way rules during busy times would lead you to t-boning another car. Other people I talked to said "no, that's just how you're supposed to drive on that roundabout" (it wasn't, and the signage was eventually updated many years later).

If _everyone_ is driving through it incorrectly doesn't make it a bad roundabout, than I suppose no roundabout can be bad. If it's always the fault of the drivers and never the design, you can't really say 4 way stops are any worse in this regard either.

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#127

Post by nucleardog »

googledocsftw wrote: post #23
Dalewyn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take a traditional cross with traffic signals or stop signs on all sides, it's simple and effective. Roundabouts are a waste of space, disrupt traffic, and take more brain processing than I care to afford if I can help it. This particular example isn't even round.

How is a roundabout more disruptive than a 4 way junction with stop signs. In terms of brain processing, you get used to it and it becomes second nature. It is a skill.

> In terms of brain processing, you get used to it and it becomes second nature. It is a skill.

Yeah, if my driver’s ed class (both content and classmates) are any indication, a four way stop is anything but intuitive or brainless.

There’s a lot of time spent covering the right of way order, and a lot of people failing their driving test on it.

Roundabouts are only disruptive because of a lack of familiarity… the only way to build that familiarity is with practice. Sucks that you have to learn a new concept after a decade or two or four ~~in the industry~~ on the road, but seems necessary for progress.

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#128

Post by Auracle »

bnralt wrote: post #95
thepaulmcbride wrote: post #35

I live in the US now, but originally from Ireland. My least favourite part of US road infrastructure is the 4 way stop. They are just not good compared to a roundabout. Half the time the only way you can tell it’s an all way stop is by looking for the back of the stop signs on the perpendicular road. With a roundabout, you only have to look in one direction, and if it’s clear, you don’t even have to stop.

Online I see this mentality that roundabouts are great no matter what and it seems really strange to me. It really depends on the design of the roundabout and the traffic conditions. Where I grew up there are a lot of roundabouts, but many of them are so dangerously designed I started actively avoiding them. It’s not that you can’t poorly design a four way stop, but it seems to be much less common, for whatever reaso…

My experience driving in rural France was that nearly every intersection was a roundabout and it slowed things down dramatically. Many, many times I was the only driver within sight. Surely one of the two directions is more used and a couple of putting stop signs the other way would make more sense.

Roundabouts are great sometimes, but they aren’t a magic bullet.

That said we have a nasty intersection in the area on a highway that they’re going to redo, which absolutely no one could have foreseen 10 years ago when they first put it in.

The 3 options were j-turn or roundabout soon, or a full on overpass type system in another 10 years.

J-turns are awful, so while that was their first idea it was thankfully put down. It would have been even worse as it leads into a school and most buses in the area would have needed to do U-turns on the highway, as well as new teen drivers. In Minnesota.

Old people complained about roundabouts because even though they’re used quite a bit in the area apparently they don’t drive and don’t understand them.

So, 10+ million dollar overpass for a town of 2,000 it is, in 10 years. Let’s hope not too many more people die before then, eh?

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#129

Post by Arn_Thor »

bnralt wrote: post #111
lmm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely are. Even if they don't prevent all collisions, they turn T-bones into glancing hits and so save a lot of lives. The worst roundabout beats the best 4-way stop any day of the week. Sometimes there really are easy answers.

> The worst roundabout beats the best 4-way stop any day of the week. Sometimes there really are easy answers. Maybe you haven't seen the worst ones, then. For instance, one by my house had traffic lines which gave people the wrong impression about the right of way within the roundabout, leading to every vehicle treating driving like that. I actually drove like that as well for a long time - when you're spending ever…

I'd really like to know where this was or see some pictures of it. It's almost inconcievable that something designed like a roundabout would be more dangerous. It might indeed cause more accidents due to the kind of confusion you describe, but at the very least the angles and grading should lower speeds dramatically and result in fewer deadly accidents.

Re: We're excited about our new roundabout

#130

Post by OptionOfT »

The biggest problem with roundabouts the main direction can starve the lesser-used entrances.

Imagine the main road going North-South, and you're entering via East to go South.

Because of never-ending traffic going North-South you just don't get to enter.

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