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One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

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41–50 of 63 posts

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's time that we start to make room once again for the animals we almost drove to extinction. This would be a good, controlled setting to see if we can do this responsibly.

How is Vancouver "controlled"? The grizzlies can obviously swim back to the mainland if they don't like it. > we almost drove to extinction In the Lower 48, yes. Not in Canada and Alaska.

Some of them can, if they are in good physical condition. There's a reason why there haven't been any females who swam across until now.

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they swam there, no. Invasive species have to be introduced by humans, by definition! The effect of grizzlies on the island ecosystem is unknown, and that may be more of what you're talking about.

> If they swam there, no. Invasive species have to be introduced by humans, by definition! So what do you call it if humans introduce a species to an island A that's really close to another island B — and then the species happens to make the short hop to island B on its own? In a causal sense, that species would not have made it to island B if not for us introducing it to island A.

Yes, when an invasive species spreads from where it was first introduced, it remains an invasive species.

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they swam there, no. Invasive species have to be introduced by humans, by definition! The effect of grizzlies on the island ecosystem is unknown, and that may be more of what you're talking about.

By what definition? Humans being involved didn't seem common in definitions I found.

An invasive species is an introduced species that harms its new environment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species

An introduced species, alien species, exotic species, adventive species, immigrant species, foreign species, non-indigenous species, or non-native species is a species living outside its native distributional range, but which has arrived there by human activity, directly or indirectly, and either deliberately or accidentally.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduced_species

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#46
post #9

They will need to watch very carefully for any negative relationship with the endemic Vancouver Island Marmot, that only lives in a couple spots in the Island. In this case, those bears will need to be captured and moved out of the Island again. Grizzlies have the rest of N America to live.

Are a few brown bears more dangerous to marmots than the many black bears that already live there?

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#47

So are these Grizzlies now an "invasive species" on Vancouver Island? Explain why or why not you think so!

Not. Grizzlies aren't invasive here. A species is invasive basically if:

1) has been introduced directly or indirectly by man actions (a mosquito carried on a plane, a lost exotic pet). If arrived by its own means is not invasive.

2) is not a previous part of that ecosystem so it didn't evolved here; There are exceptions to this rule [1][2]

3) is reproducing in the new area (often explosively by lack of predators and diseases), also with some exceptions [3]; and

4) Will modify the ecosystem substantially (displacing or wiping other species in the process).

Wolves on Yellowstone fulfill all points except 2. They aren't invasive. Apples on America don't fulfill points 2 and 4 so they are more healers than destroyers, and reproduce but not exponentially.

------------

[1] Can be ignored when the new species fill a niche from an extinct one, "Healing" the ecosystem. Gray wolves proven to be solid healers for example. Turkeys on Mauritius island could be the only birds able to spread the seeds of some trees unable to reproduce since Dodo went extinct. In this case we can do an exception to save dozens of native species from going extinct.

[2] Creating deliberately a sanctuary of a non native species to reduce the risk of being extinct in their own place, is also allowed.

[3] neutered domestic cats, gone feral, are invasive, because there is still a constant supply from other areas.

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#48
post #39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says that grizzlies did use to exist on the island, so they’d not be invasive

By that definition, horses that were introduced to North America by humans in 16th century are not invasive because they existed in North America 10,000 years ago.

So they fill a niche in a place that evolved with extinct horses and can sustain another species of horse. If they pass a threshold where they drink all the water for example (desert pools on Australia with endemic desert fishes), they became invasive and must go.

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#49
post #46
post #9

They will need to watch very carefully for any negative relationship with the endemic Vancouver Island Marmot, that only lives in a couple spots in the Island. In this case, those bears will need to be captured and moved out of the Island again. Grizzlies have the rest of N America to live.

Are a few brown bears more dangerous to marmots than the many black bears that already live there?

Yes, They are much more strong and need more meat to survive. Being able or not to lift a heavy rock can be the difference between an entire colony of marmots wiped or not. With such small populations of gregarious animals, losing 10 or 20 marmots by three bears in a couple of nights is a serious issue. Is close to the number of survivors in the wild before the rewilding projects started.

Black bears must have some effect on marmots. Both species compete for the food, but the effect can be difficult to study (Black bears eat lots of ants for example, and ants eat surprisingly big amounts of plants also). Ecology is so complex that must be managed by trained professionals, able to see the whole picture, not for companies driven toward selling more newspapers (In the same way as computer security, hospitals, or any other issue important to us; that would cause disasters if not addressed sensibly).

Re: One pioneering grizzly and her two cubs appear on Vancouver Island

#50

How would they avoid inbreeding and genetic mutations if only a single bloodline existed there?

From the article, males swim over fairly frequently, but usually leave again when they find no females. So, there is a regular opportunity to add to the gene pool. What is newsworthy is that there is now at least one female there (sexes of the cubs are unknown). I think it is still a big leap to assume that a sustainable population is inevitable, however, as the occasional visiting male still has to find the female(s) and the resulting population will still be quite inbred.
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