What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#1

Post by mintsuku » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 1:58 AM UTC

I’m convinced I’m not intelligent enough for programming and I’m also a big softy. I enjoy programming and problem solving but I’m so bad at it, and it always fascinates me how people are able to come up with solutions to problems! I’m unable to make my own solutions to problems.I really enjoy programming when I say I really enjoy it I mean REALLY, but it is so frustrating to do something, get a code review and then be told I did it wrong, I never seem to be able to do anything when it comes to programming right. Reason I’m even posting this is because I spent hours this morning working on a brainfuck interpreter (fairly simple thing no?) only to be told I didn’t do it correctly or atleast that my design is so out of touch with reality I need to remake it. It’s been nothing but an uphill battle to not lie in a corner and cry when I see people able to come up with clever solutions quickly, and me to never get a single thing right, and me struggling just to grasp simple concept that people find intuitive. It feels like no matter how much I program I do not improve. I’m not even looking for sympathy or people to tell me that I am smart enough to do programming, I truly believe my brain is not wired for this sort of work, and I am not wondering what I should do… especially since I’m a first year computer science student. I don’t think I’m cut out for this, advice for any jobs to at are high paying and don’t require a lot of intelligence? My initial goal was a PhD in computer science, I wanted to do research on operating systems. But I overestimated my abilities and don’t think I can do it, my grades are fine in my classes but, I just don’t think I can achieve what I want to achieve and I’d prefer to not be mediocre.

What do you guys suggest to someone who’s interest do not align with their intelligence?

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#2

Post by xtrapol8 » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:10 AM UTC

See “imposter syndrome” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

As for brainfuck interpreter, that’s probably too much for you right now. That’s really not a good place to start, unless it’s an assignment.

It sounds like you’re a student/junior level, it’s not all that big of a deal. If you like it and want to make something of your self, keep at it.

There are a lot of kinds of programmers, you just have to figure out what kind you are.

There are also other tech roles that aren’t programming yet will benefit from your insights that you have learned of programming (QA or trouble shooting support for instance, of which knowing how to talk to programmers is important.)

Anyways, under confidence is not unusual, don’t give up too easily!

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#3

Post by mintsuku » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:21 AM UTC

xtrapol8 wrote: post #2

See “imposter syndrome” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome As for brainfuck interpreter, that’s probably too much for you right now. That’s really not a good place to start, unless it’s an assignment. It sounds like you’re a student/junior level, it’s not all that big of a deal. If you like it and want to make something of your self, keep at it. There are a lot of kinds of programmers, you just have to…

I was thinking I had imposter syndrome, but it says self doubt in one’s abilities compared to others, despite evidence to support the contrary. There is no evidence to show I am competent in my craft, as in not as less competent than I really am. But as for the brain fuck interpreter I’ve already done it, it’s about 95% complete and I did it in rust. It’s just part of it was not programmed the way it should have been so I now need to do the entire thing over and that really upset me. I also can’t solve anything without going to friends on discord or people in discord servers to get help when I’m stuck. I could never have done any of this without constant help and feedback. If you left me by myself I’m useless. Also what are the other tech roles I could do that aren’t porgramming? Honestly I just want to make a decent wage and live a modest life, atleast that’s my plan now that I realize my initial goals are out of reach / unrealistic.

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#4

Post by dexwiz » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:25 AM UTC

Here’s the thing, Software Engineering is not Computer Science. Never once is my career have I had to write an esoteric interpreter or even a Hard level dynamic programming algorithm.

What I have had to do is dive through twenty layers of method calls to find why a Null Pointer Exception was occurring or replicate an edge case that occurs .0001% of the time. I have looked at code I wrote a year ago, and wondered how I could have been so stupid. But in the meantime it still delivered millions of dollars in value.

Building software is more about having grit than being clever. Stick with it and it’ll get easier.

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#5

Post by svnt » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:35 AM UTC

This is not really about intelligence once you clear the bar of doing well in a CS program, which you have. The right solutions, and correct implementations, come as the result of a lot of effort and experience.

If you are not making new mistakes, you are not doing anything new. Make sure you learn the right lessons from those mistakes, and one of those lessons is to stay humble and keep doing the work.

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#6

Post by svnt » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:37 AM UTC

mintsuku wrote: post #3

xtrapol8 wrote: post #2

See “imposter syndrome” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome As for brainfuck interpreter, that’s probably too much for you right now. That’s really not a good place to start, unless it’s an assignment. It sounds like you’re a student/junior level, it’s not all that big of a deal. If you like it and want to make something of your self, keep at it. There are a lot of kinds of programmers, you just have to…

I was thinking I had imposter syndrome, but it says self doubt in one’s abilities compared to others, despite evidence to support the contrary. There is no evidence to show I am competent in my craft, as in not as less competent than I really am. But as for the brain fuck interpreter I’ve already done it, it’s about 95% complete and I did it in rust. It’s just part of it was not programmed the way it should have been…

Most corporate software development is done in teams, and the primary limiting factor is not individual competence, but the ability to work well with others. It sounds like you will do just fine.

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#7

Post by deltasepsilon » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:43 AM UTC

You are putting to much emphasis in what you believe to be your intelligence.

If you enjoy something, pursue it. There are some caveats, however. You have to get out of your own way. If you want to believe you can't do it, congratulations you have achieved your goal. If you expect everything to be below the cusp of hardship, sorry but it won't be that way. You have to allow yourself to wallow in your own ignorance and accept it. This, however, has to be WITHIN REASON. Too much of this and you will burn out. Sometimes the program you may be in may be beyond reasonable effort on your part. In this case, you need to find another way of learning that is more tuned to your pace.

In short though, you have incoherent goals. You want to do research yet failing that you want something high-paying. From my perspective it's hard to take you seriously. If you're unserious about this then I can't imagine you being particularly serious about your own development. Let's be reasonable here. You say, for example, "I'm not even looking for [...] people to tell me that I am smart enough [...]." GET. OVER. YOURSELF.

You seem to be lacking confidence. Do you think about OS concepts? Do you use whatever devices you use and say, "Hey, I think this could be better." Do you doodle ideas about how they could work and behave to improve your productivity? Great, you are in the right program. In time, you will learn tools, concepts, and theories to make your ideas real. If you're not curious or wondering about this already then find another major aligned with something you're naturally curious about. That said, sometimes the academic process will beat any love you had for the subject out of you.

If you're competent and have an above average amount of hustle, you can be successful at anything in a stable, modern, Western democracy... for now.

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#8

Post by 3np » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:52 AM UTC

deltasepsilon wrote: post #7

You are putting to much emphasis in what you believe to be your intelligence. If you enjoy something, pursue it. There are some caveats, however. You have to get out of your own way. If you want to believe you can't do it, congratulations you have achieved your goal. If you expect everything to be below the cusp of hardship, sorry but it won't be that way. You have to allow yourself to wallow in your own ignorance an…

> GET. OVER. YOURSELF.

Very much this. "I’d prefer to not be mediocre."

OP: You are holding yourself back as long as you believe this. If you enjoy programming and aren't burning out just struggling to pass, just keep at it. You're at first year in uni. You're not expected to "be" anything but learning and getting by.

If you made the brainfuck interpreter for yourself, you shouldn't let others' opinion get to you like this. And if it does, be more conscious about who you solicit opinions from.

If it's course-work, well, it's just part of the journey. It's normal to rewrite your study projects from scratch once or twice or more. Try different ways to do the same thing and keep an open mind.

Finally some motivation: I'm probably twice your age, and no doubt the kind of motivation and curiousity you say you have is worth 10x more in the long run than 10~20 IQ here or there.

Also read this: https://pthorpe92.dev/programming/magic/

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#9

Post by mintsuku » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 2:52 AM UTC

deltasepsilon wrote: post #7

You are putting to much emphasis in what you believe to be your intelligence. If you enjoy something, pursue it. There are some caveats, however. You have to get out of your own way. If you want to believe you can't do it, congratulations you have achieved your goal. If you expect everything to be below the cusp of hardship, sorry but it won't be that way. You have to allow yourself to wallow in your own ignorance an…

I always think about programming and CS concepts, I am currently reading the OSSTEP books, I’ve one of those minds that obsess over the things they find fun or enjoyable so my mind is always lingering with things I’ve learned or done. I’m very curious about how everything works, all the way down to this finer details. I’m usually never satisfied with just knowing that something does what it does, I have to know why, how and what mechanisms are in place to allow this to happen. Yes, you are right, I do need to get over myself and as you said, it seems that I lack self esteem and confidence. I’m not sure how I’d fix that especially since programming more seems to make it worse. Also I think you misunderstood what I meant by research and high paying job, what I was trying to say is that if my goal to be a researcher doesn’t work out, I wanted to know what jobs would be high paying and not require a significant amount of intelligence, and since I believe I don’t have the required intelligence to do what it is I want to do, I asked what other jobs there were I could do. Thank you for your words and advice!

Re: What to do when your intelligence does not align with your interest?

#10

Post by deltasepsilon » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 5:14 AM UTC

mintsuku wrote: post #9

deltasepsilon wrote: post #7

You are putting to much emphasis in what you believe to be your intelligence. If you enjoy something, pursue it. There are some caveats, however. You have to get out of your own way. If you want to believe you can't do it, congratulations you have achieved your goal. If you expect everything to be below the cusp of hardship, sorry but it won't be that way. You have to allow yourself to wallow in your own ignorance an…

I always think about programming and CS concepts, I am currently reading the OSSTEP books, I’ve one of those minds that obsess over the things they find fun or enjoyable so my mind is always lingering with things I’ve learned or done. I’m very curious about how everything works, all the way down to this finer details. I’m usually never satisfied with just knowing that something does what it does, I have to know why,…

FWIW, your ability to self-reflect makes me excited for your future. There is nothing to "fix" with respect to self-esteem and confidence. Just observe those thoughts as they arise and laugh at them. We all are novices. We just happen to be at different stages of our own personal development.

"Young man, in mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them." —John von Neumann[1]

[1] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/11267/what-are-some...