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Meta Movie Gen

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Re: Meta Movie Gen

#271
post #81
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but... it's good enough? There were movies with horrible VFX that still sold perfectly well at the time.

An important contrast is that early VFX offered strong control with weak fidelity, and these prompt-based AI systems offer high fidelity with weak control. Intent matters if you want to make something more than a tech demo or throwaway B-roll and you can't communicate much intent in a 30 word prompt, assuming the model even follows the prompt accurately.

This is such an important problem of the entire genAI idea. It's absurd that people keep focusing on quality instead of talking about it.

But then, a lot of people have financial reasons to ignore the problem. What's too bad, because it's hindering the creation of stuff that are actually useful.

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#272
Facebook just spent 40 billion dollars on their AI infrastructure. Can they recoup those costs with stuff like this (especially after the VI debacle)? I doubt it. AI has been a wild ass jagged wasteland of economic failure since the 1950's and should be used with extreme caution by these companies...Like is it worth peoples time to spend ten\fifteen dollars (they have to eventually charge for this) to let AI create a, to be freank, half-assed valley of the uncanny movie? I respect the technology and what they're trying to accomplish but this just seems like they're going completely all in on an industry that's laid waste to smarter people than Mark.

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#273
I've been saying for years that generated content is an impending tsunami that's going to drown out all real human voices online. The internet may become effectively unusable as a result for anything other than entertainment.

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll never be able to tell them apart.

"Turn this book into a two-hour movie with the likeness of [your favorite actor/actress] in the lead role." This sounds marginally above fanfiction, so I do think it'll be very easy to tell them apart. "Terminator, except with Adam Sandler and set on Mars" is a cute, gimmicky idea, not a competitor to serious work.

Maybe, but I guarantee you this is going to get banned in the US for "safety" or "misinformation" reasons eventually (with large backing from Hollywood).

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#275
The paper that comes with this is nearly as crazy as the videos themselves. At a cool 92 pages it's closer to a small book than a normal scientific publication. There's nearly 10 pages of citations alone. I'll have to work through this in the coming days, but here's a few interesting points from the first few sections.

For a long time people have speculated about The Singularity. What happens when AI is used to improve AI in a virtuous circle of productivity? Well, that day has come. To generate videos from text you need video+text pairs to train on. They get that text from more AI. They trained a special Llama3 model that knows how to write detailed captions from images/video and used it to consistently annotate their database of approx 100M videos and 1B images. This is only one of many ways in which they deployed AI to help them train this new AI.

They do a lot of pre-filtering on the videos to ensure training on high quality inputs only. This is a big recent trend in model training: scaling up data works but you can do even better by training on less data after dumping the noise. Things they filter out: portrait videos (landscape videos tend to be higher quality, presumably because it gets rid of most low effort phone cam vids), videos without motion, videos with too much jittery motion, videos with bars, videos with too much text, video with special motion effects like slideshows, perceptual duplicates etc. Then they work out the "concepts" in the videos and re-balance the training set to ensure there are no dominant concepts.

You can control the camera because they trained a dedicated camera motion classifier and ran that over all the inputs, the outputs are then added to the text captions.

The text embeddings they mix in are actually a concatenation of several models. There's MetaCLIP providing the usual understanding of what's in the request, but they also mix in a model trained on character-level text so you can request specific spellings of words too.

The AI sheen mentioned in other comments mostly isn't to do with it being AI but rather because they fine-tune the model on videos selected for being "cinematic" or "aesthetic" in some way. It looks how they want it to look. For instance they select for natural lighting, absence of too many small objects (clutter), vivid colors, interesting motion and absence of overlay text. What remains of the sheen is probable due to the AI upsampling they do, which lets them render videos at a smaller scale followed by a regular bilinear upsample + a "computer, enhance!" step.

They just casually toss in some GPU cluster management improvements along the way for training.

Because the MovieGen was trained on Llama3 generated captions, it's expecting much more detailed and high effort captions than users normally provide. To bridge the gap they use a modified Llama3 to rewrite people's prompts to become higher detail and more consistent with the training set. They dedicated a few paragraphs to this step, but it nonetheless involves a ton of effort with distillation for efficiency, human evals to ensure rewrite quality etc.

I can't even begin to imagine how big of a project this must have been.

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#276
post #261
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best answer I've seen, but I think what was demonstrated is miles away from this. A lot would need to be able to be specified (and honored) from the prompts, far more than any examples have demonstrated. I'm not against tools for directors, but the thing is, directors tell actors things and get results. Directors hire cinematographers and work with them to get the shots they want. Etc. How does that happe…

I think it starts simple. Have you ever been watching a movie or tv show, and it shows the people walking up to the helicopter or Lamborghini and then cut to "they've arrived at their destination no transportation in sight"? It will start out with more believable green screen backgrounds and b roll. Used judiciously, it will improve immersion and cost Have you ever noticed that explosions look good? Even in hobby fil…

That I could believe, although... there is quite a bit of commentary from film buffs that lots of the stuff done in post doesn't quite look right, compared to older films.

Which doesn't mean it won't keep happening (economics), but it doesn't necessarily mean any improvement in movie quality.

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll never be able to tell them apart.

It depends on how shallow your understanding of media is. I'm sure this can be used to create entertaining movies that are fun and wacky. I don't think it can create impactful movies.

I don't agree. While "just" audio, I've made a few AI songs that have made people tear up and trigger strong emotions.

I think you can do this with video too, just more challenging right now.

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creativity isn’t magic, it’s a skill I don't agree. There's some skill, some theory, behind it. But mastering this alone is almost worthless. There's a huge overlap between creatives and mental illness, particularly bipolar disorder. It seems perfectly mentally stable people lack that edge and insight. To me, that signals there is some magic behind it. And it's magic because then it must not be rationale and it mus…

All artists I have known have spent most of their lives practicing. Just as I have practiced programming. That's the biggest edge, commitment. To think that you _need_ to be neurodivergent to be an artist is non-sensical and stating mastering the craft itself is worthless is indicative of a lack of respect for their work. I'm baffled by this type of comment here in all honesty. Really, broaden your horizons.

> To think that you _need_ to be neurodivergent to be an artist

You will notice I never said this.

All I said, and is true, is there is a correlation between being an artist and being neurodivergent.

> stating mastering the craft itself is worthless

Where did I say this too?

It appears you're having an argument with a ghost. You're correct, that argument is baffling! I wonder then why you made it up if you're just gonna get baffled by it? Seems like a waste of time, no?

Look, art is two things: perspective and skill. One without the other is worthless.

I can have near perfect skill and recreate amazing works of art. And I will get nowhere. Or, I can have a unique and profound perspective but no skill, and then nobody will be able to decipher my perspective!

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we judge from AI writing, we can extrapolate what an AI movie would be like. I cannot imagine reading an AI book. It would look and smell like a book but nothing of value or new insight would be inside. Michael Bay might be very interested.

Michael Bay has said that he doesn't like AI.

I stand corrected. I should have remembered that organisms that occupy the same niche have the strongest competition.

Re: Meta Movie Gen

#280
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we only a few years away from one person/small group made movies where the dialog, acting, location and special effects can be tweaked endlessly for a relatively low cost. If I was a studio exec I'd be worried.

I wouldn't be. How is any of this going to lead to meaningful art? I don't think you get "The Green Mile" from something like this.

From this and other comments, I get the impression that most on HN assume the tool will be used exclusively by people without any sort of artistic talent, either plagiarizing existing works and/or producing absolute dreck.

However, I see an interesting middle ground appear: a talented writer could utilize the AI tooling to produce a movie based upon their own works without having to involve Hollywood, both giving more writers a chance to put their works in front of an audience as well as ensuring what's produced more closely matches their material (for better or worse).

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