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Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

it-notes.dragas.net

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Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#81

Post by kev009 »

rstuart4133 wrote: post #31

All I can say is experiences differ. I'm a long time Debian user, and now use FreeBSD for work. Both are far better than the proprietary competition, but I'd take Debian/Linux over FreeBSD when building a random server. To give but one example, I recently reported a bug when FreeBSD didn't boot after upgrade from 13 to 14. Worse the disk format was somehow altered so when the reboot tried to boot off 13 due to zfs bo…

https://chimera-linux.org/ is kind of that melding, at least so far as one can go with a vanilla kernel.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#83

Post by kev009 »

DeathArrow wrote: post #59

All is fine and dandy and BSDs can solve many use cases. Unfortunately for the solution we are working on, which imply many microservices we need Kubernetes and no BSD equivalent to Kubernetes exists.

I've helped build two top 10 service provider networks (10s of Tbps). One on FreeBSD, and one on Linux with Kubernetes.

I don't really see Kubernetes as being a game changer. The biggest pro, it makes it easier to onboard both development and operations personnel having a quasi-standard for how a lot of things like scheduling and application networking work.

But it also seems to come with a magnitude of accidental and ornamental complexity. I would imply the same about microservices versus, say, figuring out your repository, language, and deployment pipelines to provide a smooth developer and operator experience. Too much of this industry is fashion and navel gazing instead of thinking about the core problems and standing behind a methodology that works for the business. Unless google moves its own infrastructure to Kubernetes, then maybe there's something to be had that couldn't reasonably be done otherwise :)

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#85

Post by cientifico »

kev009 wrote: post #79

I use Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD all for fun, learning, and profit(the first two). At the very least it is nice to make acquaintance with at least one BSD because it will probably expand your knowledge on Linux in ways you wont be able to anticipate. For example, FreeBSD got me into kernel development, full system debugging, network stack development, driver development, and understanding how the whole kit f…

I completely agree! If you're looking to deeply understand how Linux works under the hood, I highly recommend trying out Linux From Scratch. It gave me invaluable insight into the system, especially when I first explored it 20 years ago. Building everything from the ground up—without relying on prepackaged distros or libc—was a game changer.

Check it out: https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#86

Post by jbverschoor »

shiroiushi wrote: post #75
jbverschoor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I started around 4.something until 6 I believe. After that it was all Debian. My lesson was to just use what moet people use. But then again, I always used PostgreSQL even though most were on MySQL

You don't have to use what "most people use" if what you're using is fully compatible, or at least compatible enough that it does everything you need it to do. PostgreSQL and MySQL are both SQL databases, so depending on what exactly you're doing, there's likely not that much difference in use. (Plus, these days, PostgreSQL seems to have become more popular.) So if you're just editing text, it doesn't matter if most…

You would think so, but you'd be surprised what how people (mis)use stuff and how they enjoy using vendor specific features / extensions. This is also, imo, what kind of killed the adoption of J2EE and even J2ME. I'm not talking about J2EE/JEE + Spring*, or using an embedded tomcat. I'm talking about basically what everybody's trying to create for the last 20 years in terms of deployment etc. Sun had it pretty much figured out back then

For editing text, I only use vi.. It's available everywhere and I know my way around it.

I'm glad postgres became popular :). The reasoning around using what many people use is that software is generally more available..

Maybe I'll give FreeBSD another swing in the future, but I'm not sure what the state of containers is. I used jails back in the days, but I'll have to do some research on that.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#87

Post by appendix-rock »

jwildeboer wrote: post #61

"As an experiment, I decided to migrate two hosts (each with about 10 VMs) of a client — where I had full control—without telling them, over a weekend." And that's where I draw the line. Abusing the trust of your customers is an absolute no-no in my book.

What!? Changing implementation details is not “abusing trust”. Where would you even draw the line with this attitude!? Should I be informing my customers whenever I update the version of left-pad I have installed!?

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#88

Post by Tor3 »

vfclists wrote: post #51
jdbernard wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would work for myself, following my own philosophy. Sounds like he understood it just fine. He owns the means of production.

He only works for himself only if he gets a steady income stream so long as the systems he manages stay up, which I'm sure he doesn't. There is a reason for the "you will own nothing and you will be happy" ideology being promoted by "PTB", ie subscriptions for ink cartridges, heated seats and advanced suspensions in newer cars. Corporations now want a continuous income stream from the services provide by physical pro…

I have kind of scratched my head a bit as to why our local VM provider has all these scheduled downtimes.. while the servers we run in-house have those maybe once or twice a year, at most. Hm..

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#89

Post by draga79 »

appendix-rock wrote: post #87
jwildeboer wrote: post #61

"As an experiment, I decided to migrate two hosts (each with about 10 VMs) of a client — where I had full control—without telling them, over a weekend." And that's where I draw the line. Abusing the trust of your customers is an absolute no-no in my book.

What!? Changing implementation details is not “abusing trust”. Where would you even draw the line with this attitude!? Should I be informing my customers whenever I update the version of left-pad I have installed!?

They're paying for a service. For example, if their Nextcloud is working and is stable, they don't care if it's running on Linux, FreeBSD, OmniOS, etc. It's in the contract we have - and they're fine with it.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#90

Post by Gud »

kelnos wrote: post #65
Gud wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am well aware of that change. What specific problems are there with the ZFS implementation on FreeBSD? You claim it is not battle tested, I find it to be rock solid..

> You claim it is not battle tested, I find it to be rock solid Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Never said they were
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