Live data from Hacker News

Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

journals.plos.org

131–140 of 201 posts

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've danced extensively, and tap can be brutal for the sheer number of steps you need to remember. Other dance disciplines, like ballet, tend to chunk sets of smaller movements into a larger, named one, so once you learn those sequences, it's easy to learn and recall longer routines. The way ballet is put together aligns with advice from brain science about chunking objects in memory for better recall. But tap has fe…

>chunking objects in memory for better recall // Can you share your source on this? Tangentially related wittering (I have flu, I'm a bit illucid rn): I do karate, I find sequenced moves to be a real mental struggle. But then I couldn't skip until I was a teenager. I blame/describe that as arrhythmia. I can't clap in time either.

Have you tried verbalizing as an aid to learning sequenced moves?

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#133
For me, exercise with physical-mental integration, it’s Beat Saber. But played with strict adherence to edged weapon form.

I must only cut with the “sharp side” of my light saber, and cutting must take the form of contact then pulling back hard to slice (you don’t push a blade through meat).

Also, you can’t stand there. The enemy is going to slice you, and avoid your attacks much more easily if you just stand in one place. So never stop moving, high, low, side to side, back & forth.

Attack and cut from every angle. From over, from under, from every possible stance. Dance, motherflamingo, dance!

All this with maximum speed & force.

And no blade crossing. Duh!

Now work your way up in difficulty. You learn to move like a samurai. You don’t have a choice!

I wish the game had settings that enforced these constraints, along with more complex target motion & rotation. And moving/rotating shielded target sides that reduced your attack options. But just imagining the constraints, just as it is, works fine.

It also helps to have a large enough area where your VR boundaries are all but irrelevant. And no pauses between songs - one album at a time, straight out. You don’t get a break in battle!

One thing I have learned. If I ever had to fight in a real epic 合戦 (gah-sen), I would want my AirPods and tunes!

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you will “meet” more women by dancing than by playing games on your computer. That doesn’t necessarily mean you will make any meaningful connections. Simply going places and interacting with people will also help you meet women. In fact, I think you’d sooner find a date by becoming a grocery store employee than a dancer, because you’re more likely to be having conversations with the people you meet. Dancing, esp…

I think I met the majority of my dating partners including my wife on a dancefloor. (Well, technically I had met my wife before. But we reconnected at a club.) Dancing at nightclubs is great. Assuming you can find one whose crowd is your kind of people, it's one of the few remaining venues where people of all genders and orientations mix and it's considered socially acceptable to initiate a conversation with someone…

Nightclub dancing is usually social dancing, not dance training. Yes, nightclubs can be good places to meet people (and potential lovers/mates). But dance classes (dance training as per the study) is very different.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#135
post #19

I do MRI work, and my gut is that none of the claims about dance vs. exercise would replicate. The behavioral data suggests that activity of some type will improve cognitive function (main effects of time). Such beneficial effects of activity on the brain have been shown before, and this is generally accepted. However, the authors' behavioral data doesn't show any difference between the dance vs. exercise groups. Thi…

I have done lots of free-form couples dancing (over 20 years, several times per week, some of it in complex styles like argentine tango) and in my first-hand experience the major difference from other kinds of exercise is that you need to harmonize your movements with your partner and music, and you need to improvise. The complexity of the movement is not it, nor the "exercise".

There is lots of other research suggesting that couples dancing is more beneficial to the mental health and memory than other kinds of exercise.

That said (and having no background in an very little knowledge of MRI research), I am also skeptical like you that there would appear such clear visible signs so soon in the brain images.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#136

I don't have any science behind this, but it makes sense that training more complex motions would trigger greater brain improvements. Dance vs basketball or some other high coordination/skill activity might have less disparity than say dance vs. exercise bike.

Speaking as someone who tried to take a tap class as an adult, only to discover it was for people who were already experienced dancers: yes, dance training is vastly more complex than exercise. Update: what absolutely killed me is that we would run through a complex step two or three times, and we were expected to be able to practice at home. I didn't understand what we were doing while we were doing it, there was no…

I teach Karate to kids and many of the forms require some amount of coordination and quick movement. A little thinking ahead and awareness of where your own limbs are (I think it's called proprioception). I've been doing this for a long time and can make reasonable accurate judgments about my physical abilities (how far I can jump etc.). But it's a skill that's quite demanding for new learners and that became quite apparent to me when I started teaching. I think it would be similar learning dancing (especially complex moves).

For forms, we had to practice it till it became muscle memory and then it would automatically come up when we needed it and influence our moves even outside of the forms. I can relate to your experience about not understanding. However, the knowledge is additive and if you start small and keep practicing, you develop a skill to understand the forms/patterns at a larger level with some kinds of cues and it's vastly easier to remember and perform. THis also requires a teacher who can ease you into the complex stuff without dumping it all on you.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#137
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who tried to take a tap class as an adult, only to discover it was for people who were already experienced dancers: yes, dance training is vastly more complex than exercise. Update: what absolutely killed me is that we would run through a complex step two or three times, and we were expected to be able to practice at home. I didn't understand what we were doing while we were doing it, there was no…

I have experience with a few types of dance including salsa and bachata, and also compete as a strength athlete- and find some of the more complex weight lifting moves- such as the push jerk- a lot harder and more technical than anything I’ve learned dancing. If every aspect of your timing and form aren’t perfect, it simply does not work at heavier weights, and can take years of constant practice to perfect. The extr…

I have 20 years experience in dancing couples dances, with lots of private classes on technique in some styles, as well three years in weight training with several times per week with a PT who specialized in and taught me weight training technique. (I am not very muscular, though, so I am not saying this to brag, just to give you some idea of my background).

I have had a really bad body coordination, so I have had to learn everything the hard way. So I know A LOT of theory -- and over time, I have learned to coordinate my body much better. But some kinesthetic people are still naturals and move better than I do.

I agree with you that the major difference between dancing and other sports is probably not in the complexity of the movement. I think that the biggest difference is in improvisation and need to harmonize movement with your partner and music.

I also agree with you that there is almost no limit in either field on how detailed you can be in your body movements.

But even within weight training there appear to be various approaches, based on different goals. In my training, I almost never used 100 percent effort. Rather, the muscles were constantly stimulated with similar but different movements, all the time varying the stimulus. The muscles grow in rest.

It is very similar to how I have learned to dance. On the social dance floor, there are always limitations (such as other couples, tables, walls, music etc.) that come up. When you are improvising, you need to adjust your movements constantly (varying step length, direction, the movement you are doing etc.). And over time, you have experienced everything that can happen, and your body has learned to react to it, so "you" (i.e. your analytical mind) can relax and let the body move.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I believe that our brains are extremely sensitive to shared experience, work, art, movement or else (singing in harmony would work too). It might even tap in primitive toddler brain phases.

Dance is very Gemeinschaft : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinschaft_and_Gesellschaft > singing in harmony would work too I believe at least some Amish sing at very low BPM. Two possible interpretations: (a) they share the opinions of Baptists when it comes to dancing, so the BPM is deliberately so low as to be clearly undanceable, and (b) at normal BPM individual participants might just be staying in rhythm, low…

Max Damien’s Riverian monologue:

>>Gemeinsamkeit(usually translated to English as neither C nor S)

(Also contrasted with Gesangverein)

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dance is very Gemeinschaft : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinschaft_and_Gesellschaft > singing in harmony would work too I believe at least some Amish sing at very low BPM. Two possible interpretations: (a) they share the opinions of Baptists when it comes to dancing, so the BPM is deliberately so low as to be clearly undanceable, and (b) at normal BPM individual participants might just be staying in rhythm, low…

Max Damien’s Riverian monologue: >> Gemeinsamkeit (usually translated to English as neither C nor S) (Also contrasted with Gesangverein )

From reading HN, it sounds as if many (at least among the terminally online?) in the Old Country could stand to verbesser their Vereinsleben*.

When speaking with colleagues and friends still in the Old Country, depending upon whether I wish to shock (or not), I decide between saying I live (in a Gemeinde) or in a commune.

Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKIaS0lh-uo

* that said, tinder is still incredibly popular here; kids these days!

EDIT: one notes the legacy of the pike square in that one can still hear cries of "close ranks! close ranks!" in the village square — but these days it's used to mean "scoot over a little on the party benches so the late arrivals can fit in": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls4eU3txvFI

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Max Damien’s Riverian monologue: >> Gemeinsamkeit (usually translated to English as neither C nor S) (Also contrasted with Gesangverein )

From reading HN, it sounds as if many (at least among the terminally online?) in the Old Country could stand to verbesser their Vereinsleben *. When speaking with colleagues and friends still in the Old Country, depending upon whether I wish to shock (or not), I decide between saying I live (in a Gemeinde ) or in a commune . Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKIaS0lh-uo * that said, tinder is still incredibl…

To riff on the risque, I advertise

[if forex, SPJ is allowed these days to be remembered for idealizing the shitting of pants..]

  the idea of experts’ pants as a a commodity to die metaphorically for
(With the caveat that some might enjoy seeing instead what the experts are hiding when the tide [of fashion] goes out)

(& one can e.g. with this explain, with mauvaise foi, Hipour’s smile)

Post reply on HN