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Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

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Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#61

Post by agumonkey »

alunchbox wrote: post #48

A book I read 'spark' by John J Ratey, discussed this in a few chapters. Cardio/Running at 70% maximum heart rate lead to brain plasticity and even allowing new synapses to make connections and grow. However, he did argue an exercise that also required concentration e.g dancing, basketball, skateboarding would have better results. It's absolutely crazy, that we misunderstand how our brains are intended to work in the…

sophisticated coordination and balance are the most effectful brain stimulation i know, it also makes you develop a different understanding of space and time which makes you calmer (larger planning abilities maybe ?)

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#62

Post by fransje26 »

anonzzzies wrote: post #55
fransje26 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, to be contrary old dude into martial arts all his life, I don't really consider many head bashing 'styles' now to be 'arts'. Which ones would you consider to be "arts", and worth getting into? I was recently thinking that I would like to get back into martial arts, but having done taekwondo in the past, I'm absolutely not interested in going back to any form of bashing impact..

I will try to do Aikido until I die. I started in the 80s with Kyokushin and I trained with top trainers; when I was young they wanted to move me to thai or kick boxing as I would, like numerous dutch guys did of the same school, kick the fuck out of the competition. Never had that interest. I like the movements and indeed the art behind it. Someone in this thread said boxing is like ballroom dancing; I really don't…

Thank you for your reply.

I really wanted to try Aikido, and went as far as doing an introductory class at university. Everything was fine until the next morning when I couldn't bend my elbow anymore, with an over strain pain that lasted more than a week. I was quite in shape at the time, so I took it as a sign that maybe it wasn't for me. (Or at least not in that school..) And that stopped me in my tracks unfortunately.

But I'll keep your feedback in the back of my head, and let's see what the future brings.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#63

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

bogtog wrote: post #19

I do MRI work, and my gut is that none of the claims about dance vs. exercise would replicate. The behavioral data suggests that activity of some type will improve cognitive function (main effects of time). Such beneficial effects of activity on the brain have been shown before, and this is generally accepted. However, the authors' behavioral data doesn't show any difference between the dance vs. exercise groups. Thi…

> The authors' claims about BDNF are supported by a p-value of p = .046, and having main conclusions hinge on p-values of p > .01 usually means the conclusions are rubbish.

Also, I don't have the references handy, but I recall other studies showing that exercise-induced BDNF changes can be mediated by e.g. air pollution. So even if the difference there is real, it might be premature to attribute it specifically to the mode of training.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#64

Post by WalterBright »

macintux wrote: post #38
ericmcer wrote: post #37

I don't have any science behind this, but it makes sense that training more complex motions would trigger greater brain improvements. Dance vs basketball or some other high coordination/skill activity might have less disparity than say dance vs. exercise bike.

Speaking as someone who tried to take a tap class as an adult, only to discover it was for people who were already experienced dancers: yes, dance training is vastly more complex than exercise. Update: what absolutely killed me is that we would run through a complex step two or three times, and we were expected to be able to practice at home. I didn't understand what we were doing while we were doing it, there was no…

What works is to go through the steps very slowly. As it moves into muscle memory, you can speed it up.

Dance training is a whole body thing. There's steps, ankle position, foot turnout, posture, what to do with your arms, what to do with your fingers, where your eyes are looking, and on and on.

The very first thing, though, is getting the steps into your muscle memory. Then one by one, you start layering on the rest.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#65

Post by 3523582908 »

My own personal experience, but my 80 year old FIL changed a lot after he started going to dance classes. He was always in decent physical health, but prior to the classes he was a very stressed, unhappy, solitary type of person. Since then he's become much more extroverted, social, and generally happier.

Obviously I think the benefits are more than just the dancing itself, such as the community, but even when you ask him directly about what he thinks caused the change he points to dance classes.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#66

Post by WalterBright »

agumonkey wrote: post #59
bogtog wrote: post #19

I do MRI work, and my gut is that none of the claims about dance vs. exercise would replicate. The behavioral data suggests that activity of some type will improve cognitive function (main effects of time). Such beneficial effects of activity on the brain have been shown before, and this is generally accepted. However, the authors' behavioral data doesn't show any difference between the dance vs. exercise groups. Thi…

My random opinion is that dance or dance like activities are a sweet spot between low intensity and high intensity exercise that involves a lot more balance, coordination and fluidity than most physical activities promoted for health overall (they're either too simple or too hard), these traits are (I believe) very important to your brain. Add the social aspect as an important bonus.

Yes, moving as one with your partner is a big part of it, and where much of the pleasure comes from.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#67

Post by WalterBright »

changing1999 wrote: post #15

I would like to see a comparison with other types of physical exercise that contain an element of continuous learning. Wrestling, BJJ, even boxercise, crossfit and such. Since the argument seems to be specifically about learning new routines and how that impacts neuroplasticity, dance vs other more cognitively challenging workouts would be an interesting comparison.

With dance you are constantly learning new material. Much less so with an exercise routine, even if you "mix it up".

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#68

Post by alaithea »

macintux wrote: post #38
ericmcer wrote: post #37

I don't have any science behind this, but it makes sense that training more complex motions would trigger greater brain improvements. Dance vs basketball or some other high coordination/skill activity might have less disparity than say dance vs. exercise bike.

Speaking as someone who tried to take a tap class as an adult, only to discover it was for people who were already experienced dancers: yes, dance training is vastly more complex than exercise. Update: what absolutely killed me is that we would run through a complex step two or three times, and we were expected to be able to practice at home. I didn't understand what we were doing while we were doing it, there was no…

I've danced extensively, and tap can be brutal for the sheer number of steps you need to remember. Other dance disciplines, like ballet, tend to chunk sets of smaller movements into a larger, named one, so once you learn those sequences, it's easy to learn and recall longer routines. The way ballet is put together aligns with advice from brain science about chunking objects in memory for better recall. But tap has few of those chunked sequences, other than the "time step," so you're left trying to parse long strings of very finite instructions. "Left ball right heel left flap ball change..." Personally I found it overwhelming and didn't pursue tap into the most advanced levels for that reason.

Aside: it seemed like neurotypical folks struggled less with tap than I did as an AuDHD person, so tap may land differently with different neurotypes.

Re: Dance training superior to physical exercise in inducing brain plasticity (2018)

#70

Post by not5150 »

It would be interesting to see the results compared to martial arts, specifically martial arts which require you to perform kata/forms or a set of prearranged moves/strike. So it's basically like a dance, but something like block, punch, turn, kick low, kick high, spinning back kick, etc for 1-3 minutes.

American Kenpo brown belt kata I'm looking at you!

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