Live data from Hacker News

EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

statewatch.org

161–170 of 279 posts

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#161
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's not a coincidence that the more shameless politicians ignore peaceful protests while doing the bidding of lobbyists, the more climate-concerned people feel the need to escalate their nuisance tactics which conveniently makes those same shameless politicians feel that they can justify more draconian measures to stifle privacy, speech and activism.

I think politicians are skirting democratic accountability because they can, and not enough people are protesting the lack of this accountability. The most concerning thing about this proposed legislation is the fact that it can be used to further skirt accountability, by labeling protesters under the broad terms the bill covers.

Back in the day, in a more localized times (i.e your life was somewhat controlled by those within your vicinity), if our "leaders" were tratiours, we would get the torches and pitchforks and march to their homes as the citizen's form of keeping leaders accountable.

Post-enlightenment, we put down the torches and pitchforks, we outsourced the accountability function to the media/press. Shame and transparency were the new "torch and pitchforks".

As soon as the likes of Rupert Murdoch/Roger Ailes etc. got involved in media, the press no longer wields the people's power, which was delegated to them, for the people. Instead the press selectively uses that power for ulterior aims - whether that's the Oil & Gas industry, the war machine, or for foreign interests.

After Clinton, and in order to push the illegal Iraq war, politicians (no longer called "leaders") had to shed all their shame so that they would be immune to any press that came out about their illegal acts for the war machine. Wikileaks happened. Only the messenger was pursued.

Shame doesn't work anymore. The press use the power we gave them against us. Therefore no wonder protests don't work. They don't get covered and politicians are rewarded for shamelessly ignoring the people's interests.

The system is broken.

I don't blame climate protesters escalating. Especially while climate destruction is being escalated.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#162
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How silly. Orban and his fellows are the ones who engage in authoritarianism.

There is currently an initiative to forbid a political party, the AfD in Germany. This is not supported by the CDU, but by others. While I do not like the AfD, forbidding political parties that serve as an outlet for people who do not support the uniparty and their essentially identical policies seems to be one of the most totalitarian measures in postwar Germany. The SPD should instead examine why they themselves ar…

Considering what the AfD stands for, I'm in for them being banned from political life. German society has been extremely patient with them, refraining to use the word "nazi" when it kind of fits. I don't think it'll happen though, because they manage to be as nazi as possible within the letter of the law.

> The SPD should instead examine why they themselves are losing votes.

Extremist discourse is appealing. Much like using lead in gasoline. It's very hard to compete with hate-based politics when you don't have to outline actual actionable and long-term viable policies and can rely on soundbites for effect.

edit: burn, karma, burn

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#163

That's pretty crazy, it looks a lot like in Minority Report. Notice the reference to a "future criminal offence" and the phrase "leading to the belief" in the criteria: A “minimum materiality threshold”. This requires “objective and verifiable… information suggesting that a criminal offence, or future criminal offence, has a certain degree of seriousness.” A “basic indicative criterion”. This requires “objective, ver…

[deleted]

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#164

From the article "Climate activism is on the rise, together with an increased willingness to use violence, marking a shift from environmental activism to environmental extremism" As far as I can tell, climate activists have been making a nuisance of themselves much more than a 'willingness to use violence.' I find this justification concerning, to say the least.

[deleted]

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#165
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption is cultural. There's a correlation between petty corruption and political corruption.

> Corruption is cultural. Are there cultures without corruption ? (no i'm not asking about headhunters in Papua New Guinea)

The definition of corruption is also cultural. From an individual perspective there are places with relatively more or less corruption.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#166
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stance ("ever been democratic") is a bit too strong for my taste. There are definitely issues with the EU parliament having no rights to propose laws or the amount of indirection between voters and some powerful institutions. But calling the EU not being democratic is going too far, in my eyes. Especially considering the setup as a confederation of sovereign countries, so the comparison to individual countries'…

> But calling the EU not being democratic is going too far I'm an EU citizen. I have minimal saying in who our commissioner is and what members of the cabinet get chosen. I have a vote which I give to whatever party. After that, the vote for commissioner is secret; I have no idea who voted for what. After that, the negociations for the cabinet are secret; I have no idea what the criteria are and what the plans are. I…

This is generally called "representative democracy" and is mostly what people talk about when they talk about "democracy" in public conversations. The alternative is "direct democracy" and while it exists (like in Switzerland), it isn't nearly as common, sadly.

But representative democracy still is democracy.

Re: EU: Definition of "potential terrorists" opens door to broad information-sharing

#167
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AfD has a serious right-wing problem and doesn't want to clean up their act. Banning the party might lead to failure as with the NPD (which since renamed itself) but it's worth a try and in parallel axing their funding like just happened earlier this year with the NPD should be attempted. I disagree with your "totalitarian measure" comment, it is the AfD who are not compatible with the German constitution and the…

If the people want AfD, is not a clear indicator that either something is wrong with Germany's highest law or its interpretation? The benefit of there being being AfD in the open is that it would be in the open. Is it a good idea to keep things hidden?

If you are unhappy with a law, get a majority. AfD just like it's spiritual predecessor in the NSDAP won't get that. The best Hitler got before his Machtergreifung was only 43% right after the Reichstagbrand. There was a path that we - thanks to the magic that is hindsight - can clearly see now and we should use that knowlegde to prevent history from repeating, but one thing is certain: The political extremes won't play by the rules, let alone play fair, to reach power. We've seen this with Hitler, we saw it with the Republican party in Florida 2020 to get Bush into power and we've seen it with January 6th and again with the preparations republican across the country do to prevent voters from voting or not validate results.
Post reply on HN